Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to expect to have more disposable income than single mums claiming benefits PART 2

35 replies

Tortington · 12/11/2007 08:14

just in case you have a comment and can't comment anymore

last post from lazyemma

"inthegutter, are you being deliberately obtuse? You wouldn't get any of your rent paid if you were working, that's the point. If you were on income support, which you seem determined to paint as some desirable lifestyle option, the rest of your rent (assuming housing benefit coughs up a proportion) would have to come from your income support and tax credits."

OP posts:
Tortington · 12/11/2007 08:23

i think that there are so many things that come with working as opposed to benefits that are not financial things like
confidence
hope
aspiration
teamwork
conversation about the day
friends
funny anecdotes
Xmas do! ( with secret santa!)
promotion prospects
easier to move from one place of employment to another - easier to gain employment when you are employed
pat on the back for a job well done
THE TRAINING
the courses that you can go on for free to improve yur skills

and financial

the salary
..which increases
THE PENSION
the health insurance in some places - free eye tests

but most of all i think you are showing your chidlren a lifestyle - a way of living that you hope they will follow - which doesn't include getting shitholes on a regular basis at 14 and being pregnant by the time your 15 - becuase as a parent who has struggled to get out of the benefits trap you have shown your children that there is a better way of life at the end of the tunnel

so tell me again - who are these 'well off' parents on benefits - becuase you know what? i have never met any - not one. - not even those who are fucking over the system

and for those people that are fucking over the system and using it as a lifestyle choice - what rubbish rolemodels they are - with no hope for any improvement in the future.

so - who is better off again?

i wouldnt be jealous - i would pity them - an their children

OP posts:
colditz · 12/11/2007 08:30

£10 per week

what is income support?

housing benefit rules

MummyGee · 12/11/2007 08:35

Great posts custardo

Tortington · 12/11/2007 08:45

ta!

OP posts:
lucyellensmum · 12/11/2007 08:54

custardo, you beat me to it!!!! I started a thread too, but i think i'll paste my post here. I made every much the same things you did, but maybe from a slightly different perspective.

lucyellensmum · 12/11/2007 08:58

yes - secret santa is the thing i miss most about work

pasted from other thread

OK, so all of you smug women out there, looking down your noses at single mums on benefits. IT is really a case of "there but for the grace of god". I live with my partner, we own our own house. We struggle as he is starting a business and i am SAHM. Things are not great, i guess we are one step from repossesion but i dont think (fingers crossed) it is going to go that far. (we have also nearly split twice in the past two years due to money worries and my PND) my worst nightmare is having to go on benefits (ive been there believe me) and/or be housed on a rough council estate. So, ok, my rent would be paid, but i would have to live somewhere i dont find suitable to bring up my child (sorry im not being snobby, ive been there myself). It could happen so quickly though. Financially i probably wouldn't be much worse off than i am now (dd needs new shoes as the dog chewed the strap on one but we have to wait until we get some money in, whenever that might be, to get them - if they were too small i would borrow money from my mum i suppose)and the road in which we live isnt that great and i imagine alot of you wouldnt want to live here, i do know that with work we can move to a better area one day.

I have to say, i even feel sorry for the apparently lazy single mums who seem to play the system. I know these people exist (not just single mums) but to be fair these people probably dont have the intellectual capacity to realise that they would actually be better off, both financially and simply from a self esteem point of view if they worked. My cousin really plays the system and i get so cross about it, but when i stop judging and start thinking, i can see that she is really unable to work, she is not very bright and would actually find the most menial of jobs too much, and she has mental health issues (although these are not obvious).

So i am sorry but think before you sit there in your warm cosy houses, or even pokey little flats that you pay for with yours or your DPs hard work, that it is bad enough having to be in the position to accept state help but to have smug idiots looking down their noses at you for needing this really rubs salt into the wound.

Unless you are xenia (im not digging honestly, but you would admit yourself that your position as a SM is quite different to that of a woman with say three children under 5 with an average or even above average earning capacity) i would have thought that many single mothers cannot afford to get out of the poverty trap, as the amount they could earn may well not cover the mortgage/rent and childcare expenses. Not a good situation as the choice of either being a working mum or SAHM is really taken away from these women, and whilst i dont agree with many things xenia says, i think the option to work should be there for all women.

notmyselfnow · 12/11/2007 09:15

i would just like to say the the ignorance on the first thread has shocked me, yes there are those that cheat the system but living on benefits is in no way a good life style, those who are ignorant to that fact are obviously those who have never had the misfortune to be in that position. And these ignorant people are MNers who i would have credited to have a little more intelligence.

SeaShells · 12/11/2007 09:49

I have this year become a 'single mum on benefits' - (having to label myself as that with the stigma attached to it is enough to make me want to work regardless of whether or not I'd be better/worse off financially!) I'd honestly say that I am now in a much more financially stable position than when I was with exDP, however this is due to the fact that as a 'single mum on benefits' I get my rent paid, which was a huge chunk of our income as a couple, I also am not accepted for any sort of credit, therefore the money I get is cash in my hands each week, I don't have credit cards/catalogues etc to pay out for as they won't give me them. I think the difference of opinions comes from the fact that necessity is comparative, my opinion of what is a necessity in life has shifted now, I am very careful with the money I do have, some things cannot even be considered on my financial horizon, things such as holidays, meals out, new furniture, clothes bought anywhere other than primark. Everything has to be paid for in small amounts at a time, and because I am on benefits I pay my household bills in small amounts also, TV license, water, and my gas & electric paid on a pre-payment meter, makes me very aware of waste therefore saving me huge amounts each year I expect as I scrimp on using my heating/electrical products for example, wash my dishes by hand because the dishwasher is too costly to run. I spend very small amounts on shopping, there are no 'luxuries' in my life and god forbid when I may need to replace something as costly as a washing machine for example, I couldn't do that, thats why there are such things as social fund loans, exactly for that reason, they are paid back from your benefit, similar to working people putting things on credit cards.

It feels like because I don't earn my own money, I should live off broth and dress in second hand clothes! Should we struggle just to make the people in the fortunate position to be working feel better? I am not in the position to be working right now, I have two DCs under school age and the fact is, with the ridiculous housing costs compared with the national average income, I would really struggle and give my family a rubbish life if I was to work and would it be worth it once childcare is deducted from the pitiful wage I could earn, and the effect on my kids not being at home with me.

And how important is disposable income anyway, families who are working, more than likely are paying into a mortgage which is setting them up with a valuable asset for the future, they are contributing to society and with that have confidence, a sense of pride, life experience, friends, social life, and the pleasure of being a family which I don't have and to me that is worth so much more than x amount of money!

sixlostmonkeys · 12/11/2007 10:01

The only consistency that runs through this long thread appears to be the fact that those working (maybe with a partner) feel it unfair that they do not have the free time or spare money that they would wish for.

From the start it seems that people in this situation actually believe that this problem they are living with can be blamed on another section of our society. It is fair enough to compare your life with another?s, but I think that that initial comparison should, to any thinking person, reach a realisation that it actually no comparison at all. Even if in a calmer state one does not actually reach this conclusion alone, surely after so many posts, carefully pointing out the facts of the misconstrued notions of benefit life; the penny must drop?

Blaming others for the state you are in is a pointless waste of your thoughts and energy. If we were to eradicate the benefit claimants completely the lives of those who are working and yet struggling, would not change.

Steering your lives towards the direction you would desire can only come from you ? not your neighbour. To wish to impose more suffering on another group of people is wrong.

The safety net which is the benefits system is there to (hopefully) catch all. Should you fall from the ledge of redundancy, illness, or divorce the net will catch you. The net is only inches from the pavement though. It is not a secure brick build, it is a tangled web which can prove difficult to climb out of.

Build your own lives with the tools you have been lucky enough to acquire; a job, a partner, enough funds for security. Do not be under the illusion that a full time job (x2) should automatically equate to a bed of roses ? it would be lovely if it did, but it never has and never will. Do not spend your life feeling bitter towards those who appear to have more than you. As many before you have discovered, the grass in fact, is never greener.

NoNameToday · 12/11/2007 12:07

I typed a long message, but then decided that it would be a waste of time and effort to post it.

For those of you who work, enjoy.

For those of you who choose not to work, enjoy.

turquoise · 12/11/2007 12:23
scattyspice · 12/11/2007 12:32

Seashells. You sound like someone with her families interests at heart. Good luck i hope things work out for you.

nightowl · 12/11/2007 12:38

those of you who want to work and find it impossible to. enjoy

you missed that one out.

NoNameToday · 12/11/2007 12:43

nightowl, the variables would have been as long as the post I deleted!

Tortington · 12/11/2007 13:15

aw ty turquoise

OP posts:
harman · 12/11/2007 14:04

Message withdrawn

Tortington · 12/11/2007 14:07

i didn't read all teh other thread i dont know what nasty things were said

but i have lived on a shitty council estate i have been on benefits - i have routed down the back of the settee for dinner money, i have pretended i am not in when someone comes to door for money.

so dont apologise for who you are, where you live or what situation you are in. fuck 'em all harman fuck'em all - ignorant blind fuckballs the lot

OP posts:
nightowl · 12/11/2007 14:25

i feel exactly the same harman. this thread has upset me so much i feel i just dont want to post on here anymore, at all. knowing what people think of me.

ive been posting on mn for four years now and can honestly say there's times when i would have been lost without it, gone mad with loneliness. now i feel like im not good enough to post. ridiculous but true. i shouldn't care what people think of me i know, but some of the comments made about the children of people like me were downright cruel. lucky ds wasnt reading over my shoulder. my babies have done nothing to derserve that

colditz · 12/11/2007 14:28

don't you dare scuttle off Harman, you are doing your best.

Read the other thread again and find the bit about my 'attitude adjustment'.

I am much happier now I've done some. People get cross when they world is not how they expect it to be - some people's lives are unreasonably hard compared to the amount of effort they put in, some people have unrealistic expectations, and some people so lack empathy that they are entirely incapable for putting themselves in anyone else's shoes.

But you being even poorer will not make them any happier. Only they can make themselves happier.

colditz · 12/11/2007 14:29

And Nightowl this place is full of kind, intelligent, empathetic and supportive people - don't let one nutter spoil it for you.

littlelapin · 12/11/2007 14:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OrmIrian · 12/11/2007 14:36

Agree totally.

Anyone who feels the need to receive benefits is welcome to them. I pay my taxes to ensure that there is money for everyone to live a reasonable life.

I don't want to live in a society where people starving and homeless is the norm rather than an anomaly. Not to mention the children of those people. How can a child not deserve a decent start regardless of how much money their parents have? My DCs will have to live in the society we are building right now - I want it to be a healthy reasonably equitable one, not one built on extremes.

ScottishMummy · 12/11/2007 14:51

a measure of a liberal and balanced society is how it looks after individuals/families when they are in need. state benefits are designed for such a need, and i do not begrudge it, nor do i find it useful to have a dichotomy of deserving poor and undeserving poor.

fortunately i do not need state benefits, but you know what if i did i would claim.

through my job i have seen some peoople really struggling to get by. No disposable income or luxuries.

the urban myth of the state benefit recipient with huge tv, lots of dosh, and a sideline dodgy deals - it is just that a rarity, not the norm

we are all potentially just a few mortagage paymemts awawy from hardship imo.

rebelmum1 · 12/11/2007 14:58

I think you need a safety net but you can be in danger of supporting poverty. There are people on benefits who don't need to be, and they're not one or two. There are people who need the support and get back on their feet but there are also people who spend their lives on benefit, have no sense of personal responsibility and ultimately become de-skilled and make no contribution to society.

Tinybump · 12/11/2007 15:12

I havent read the first part of this. But some people really need to wise up and shut up.
Picking on single mums on benefits, is this some sort of bullying?

Unless you know someones circumstances how can you just make these assumptions?

Im not a single mum on benefits but im disgusted that there are threads slagging them off.

Swipe left for the next trending thread