To think you should not allow your dog to chase squirrels?

[lillypond75]

Because it causes distress to a wild animal! I said to my friend to put their dog on a lead and she looked at me like I was mad. Apparently it's fine as their dog is unlikely to catch it, but that's hardly the point imo.

Bells. On collar. If squirrels still don't run away then ...

Instead of complaining to your friends, why not do something productive and set up a counselling group for those poor traumatised squirrels to work through their emotions post-being chased?? And then afterwards maybe set up another for all the dogs that feel they've lost their sense of purpose from not being allowed to chase squirrels?

Grey squirrels are vermin - an invasive species. I let DDog chase them in the local park - he's a terrier and so hard wired to chase anything small and furry.

Despite having a top speed of 24 miles an hour (when slightly younger, yes, we measured!) he's never caught one because he has no technique and I suspect he slightly slows down when he gets a bit too close because he doesn't really want to catch one, he just likes the thrill of the chase. Even the particularly thick squirrel that doubled back on itself avoided his jaws.

The worst he's ever actually achieved is interrupting a pair of Chinese tourists who were trying to take pictures of the bushy tailed rats.

No way I'd let him off lead near livestock though, and there's no ground nesting birds in our park. It's so urban that the skills required to walk there are basically dodging picnics and learning not to eat litter, not avoiding wildlife.

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages whilst I agree with you about grey squirrels and they are the only species I would advocate a cull of, I don't think dogs should be encouraged or condoned to chase after them. There are other animals a dog could then be chasing and frightening, so its a matter of good training not to be chasing things.

[quote CuthbertDibbleandGrubb]@AvocadosBeforeMortgages whilst I agree with you about grey squirrels and they are the only species I would advocate a cull of, I don't think dogs should be encouraged or condoned to chase after them. There are other animals a dog could then be chasing and frightening, so its a matter of good training not to be chasing things.[/quote]
In my local urban park, what other animals are there?

Pigeons, seagulls, waterfowl - he has no interest
Hedgehogs - we occasionally see them in the summer at dusk but he's avoided them like the plague after discovering that sniffing one in an investigative manner and discovering spikes hurt his nose
Foxes - I presume, based on the turds, but we've never seen one
Rats - but no one would whine about those being killed either.

I can assure you that this is no haven for rare furry wildlife. It's full of students and 20-somethings drinking and having picnics. Sometimes there are used needles. A rural idyll it ain't.

I presume you mean all types of squirrels. I'm not fussed with grey squirrels but she's too old to catch them now. Reds I would never let her chase.

I personally find the whole red squirrels- no way, grey squirrels- crack on mentality very disturbing. To the squirrels it makes no difference, they feel the same pain and emotions regardless of colour.

Grey squirrels are an invasive, non-native species. They are not suitable for our ecosystem, which is why they have almost eradicated our native red squirrels and can do untold damage to trees. You can get non-native species that are not invasive but when a non-native species takes over the balance in the ecosystem it can have devastating effects. Including for other wildlife. Not every critter should be protected just because it feels pain. Invasive non-native species pose a massive risk to biodiversity and habitat loss.

In rivers we had the white clawed crayfish which is a rare U.K. species. There are a number of non-native invasive crayfish, including the American signal crayfish which is the one having the biggest impact on white clawed crayfish populations. American signal crayfish eat young white clawed crayfish if they are in the same space, they also carry plague and infect the older populations of crayfish. In large quantities, American signal crayfish can burrow into the banks of the river causing sedimentation of the river, collapse of the river bank. This will then have negative effects on all other river ecology - invertebrates, fish, voles. The American signal crayfish does not care about the pain it causes white clawed crayfish or the devastation it can cause on the system as a whole. There are so many invasive non-native species impacting our environment.

You’re arguing about one animal being prevented from doing what nature intended in order that another animal can do... what nature intended!
Dogs weren’t born wearing collar and leads. They are massively over bred, under exercised, left in isolation for hours on end. If a dog is found roaming the streets it’s locked up or worse, put down. If squirrels can be allowed to live their best lives free from being chased by dogs, then dogs should also be allowed to live their best lives and not be tethered to a lead.
Let’s hear it for dogs! I

@Soontobe60

You’re arguing about one animal being prevented from doing what nature intended in order that another animal can do... what nature intended! Dogs weren’t born wearing collar and leads. They are massively over bred, under exercised, left in isolation for hours on end. If a dog is found roaming the streets it’s locked up or worse, put down. If squirrels can be allowed to live their best lives free from being chased by dogs, then dogs should also be allowed to live their best lives and not be tethered to a lead. Let’s hear it for dogs! I

A vegan once told me that keeping pets was a form of slavery.

I pointed out to her that I kept trying to set the 'slave' free at the park each day, but he keeps following me home again.

Perhaps the dog has Stockholm syndrome?

@InTheNightWeWillWish in wanting to see the end of grey squirrels I do not advocate anything other than a humane cull. I do want to see gin traps, disease or other methods of reducing the numbers of grey squirrels.

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages I had made no presumption about your local park, common or place a dog is walked and my comments apply in all places dogs go, I suggest.

My dog loves chasing things so I let her. She likes to make the birds fly off the playing field I walk her on. She loves chasing squirrels and I wouldn't be that fussed if she caught one. I would actively encourage her to kill rats if they were in my garden for example. Filthy creatures. She's a terrier, it's what she's been bred for and as long as she finished them off herself I wouldn't care.

People asking how you tell the difference between red or grey squirrels - unless you live in a very few select areas of the UK you won't see a red because the greys have driven them out. They are invasive vermin

She will never ever have the opportunity to chase livestock - always on lead without exception if it's even remotely possible livestock could be present

What @InTheNightWeWillWish said.

I'd never encourage my dogs to chase squirrels, but they have caught a few over the years (one was in the middle of the path as we rounded a corner and the elderly dog, who is well past chasing anything, nabbed it). I don't get too distraught: as PP have said, grey squirrels do a lot of damage and have driven out native reds, as well as infecting them with a disease that kills them (but not the greys).

Invasive species are a massive problem.

I don't think dogs should be encouraged or condoned to chase after them. There are other animals a dog could then be chasing and frightening, so its a matter of good training not to be chasing things.

You can't train the instinct out of a dog. Yes, dogs should be trained in good recall but it's never going to be foolproof - because they're living beings, not robots.

@BlatheringOn

Poppycat: "dream on, they've no chance of catching them".

You've obviously never owned a lurcher! That's why I have to make lots of noise to warn the squirrels.

Or a whippet. I was out walking with a friend and his whippet suddenly took off like a bullet and leaped at the trunk of a tree.

We thought the dog had gone mad until she turned round and we saw the squirrel in her mouth. She was so quick that he didn't even have time to call her.

She then appeared to decide she was actually a gundog, came back and presented him with the aforementioned squirrel, now an ex-squirrel. She was the sweetest-tempered dog in all other respects, but hugely quick and efficient when it came to rabbits. I don't think she ever got another squirrel though.

Despite having a top speed of 24 miles an hour (when slightly younger, yes, we measured!) he's never caught one because he has no technique

You need a sighthound of some description, fastest ones are good for 45mph and can spot a rabbit sized animal at half a mile. Unless the squirrel has a nearby tree it’s screwed. Ours is rarely off lead as generally their recall is not great and non-existent if the aforementioned small furry appears. On the plus side we never, ever, get cats in our garden - they’re not suicidal.

@Elai1978

Despite having a top speed of 24 miles an hour (when slightly younger, yes, we measured!) he's never caught one because he has no technique

You need a sighthound of some description, fastest ones are good for 45mph and can spot a rabbit sized animal at half a mile. Unless the squirrel has a nearby tree it’s screwed. Ours is rarely off lead as generally their recall is not great and non-existent if the aforementioned small furry appears. On the plus side we never, ever, get cats in our garden - they’re not suicidal.

I should have mentioned that he's a Jack Russell cross with very short legs! He makes the most of what he's got

One of the neighbourhood cats was once found in the garden early one morning - a scene reminiscent of Wacky Races ensued as the cat ricocheted around the garden (high walls) with DDog in hot pursuit. Eventually the cat realised that there's a gap by the gate it could fit through but DDog can't.

It's been spotted skulking along the walls a couple of times, but hasn't been stupid enough to enter the garden itself again.

With mine (scent hound) the squirrels are wise to her, and if anything, get immense enjoyment out of tormenting my dog.

They'll jump down pretty much in front of her (while she's watching them) and run towards the nearest tree while she chases and barks.

I have no sympathy for squirrels, they know what they can get away with.

I don't have a dog but I do have a husband with a long brush and a gift for making hissing noises as squirrels hang on his bird feeders, enjoying the buffet.

I've never trained him in recall and I'm not willing to keep him on a lead.
He's getting on a bit now and I think he needs the exercise.

Grey squirrels are vermin and destroy the woodland. The forestry commission were paying people to cull them, wasnt very successful so are now looking at contraception methods instead. Unlikely a dog would catch a squirrel, however we found it useful to have one around to finish off any ones that werent a clean kill when my uncle used to manage local woodland

www.airgunmagazine.co.uk/news/potential-for-airgunners-to-earn-s-from-squirrel-culling/

We have a rescue dog (Podenco) and they are bred to chase rabbits. We walk him on lead as if he sees a rabbit he will be gone, but he is allowed free access to our garden and parents garden and had caught 3 squirrels in the time we have had him. He is now 13 so the squirrels are likely to outwit him. I love animals but would see squirrels in same category as rats and can't get too distressed at a dead one occasionally. The one I found in his bed with him one day had no visible injuries so I assume probably died of fright or a quick broken neck.

@Elai1978

Despite having a top speed of 24 miles an hour (when slightly younger, yes, we measured!) he's never caught one because he has no technique

You need a sighthound of some description, fastest ones are good for 45mph and can spot a rabbit sized animal at half a mile. Unless the squirrel has a nearby tree it’s screwed. Ours is rarely off lead as generally their recall is not great and non-existent if the aforementioned small furry appears. On the plus side we never, ever, get cats in our garden - they’re not suicidal.

We have a sighthound - greyhound x whippet x saluki. Adores chasing cats, but squirrels trigger some kind of existential crisis and she just freezes and starts shaking like a leaf It's not fear, I think it's more like total overload due to having insufficient brain capacity for all the feelings.

That was meant to be , not ....

I was reminded of this thread this morning.

I was out with my dog in the woods - he was on a lead as there are fields with sheep/newborn lambs surrounding the woodland. He spotted a squirrel and it honestly took me two minutes of searching to find what he was looking at!

He was frozen, staring. He was on lead so I wasn't worried about him dashing off, but I called him, shouted, whistled and encouraged him with food and he didn't move, turn his head or look at me once. All his focus was on that squirrel and if he'd been off the lead he'd have been off and gone and there'd have been NOTHING I could do about it.

He's a beagle and he's been bred to hunt. It's what they do. All the training in the world can't undo thousands of years of breeding and evolution.

Mines a basset, and it is so interesting to see all that breeding display itself in their behaviour.

Once she's seen a squirrel in a tree it is incredibly difficult to get her attention away from that squirrel. She also does the typical basset behaviour (again, part of the breed) and will loudly bark at the squirrel.

In all honesty I wouldn't even try to train her not to, it's her breed and wouldn't be right.

This reminds me of a park nearby us where its a well known off lead (and on) area for dogs. Its pretty much always been and everywhere else has a tacit agreement to stay on lead which mostly people respect.

This particular park has lots of trees in which reside the bolshiest pack of squirrels that take great pleasure in playing games with the dogs. I swear if squirrels laugh they spend most of the time winding the dogs up and then laughing themselves silly.

The most common is to jump down and sit in one of the clearings and wait until 2 or 3 dogs start to chase then they promptly run up a tree and sit on one of the lower branches watching the dogs gather below. I swear I saw a squirrel giggling when a boxer and a spaniel ran into each other trying to get the squirrel.

I don't allow ddog to chase anything (partly because she would come off worse....worst guard dog in the whole world and partly because frankly it would encourage DC to do the same and no pigeon or squirrel needs to deal with 5 year old DS2 barrelling towards them yelling that he wants to hug them he says hug he means headlock )

I don't think dogs should be encouraged but frankly I've never seen a squirrel that can't thoroughly look after themselves.

My DM has maintained for years the squirrels are up to something....the older I get the more I think she may be onto something sinister furry beggers.