White British or something else?

[Saltisford]

Please settle a debate for me. Am I being unreasonable to tick something other than White British on the UK census form? White European?

My background is that I have one British grandparent, two Polish and one German but I was born in the UK.

What should I tick?

[CeeceeBloomingdale]

I think it is how you perceive yourself. There is a question as to which passport you hold too so they know you have for example a British passport but want to also know how you view yourself.

[BiBabbles]

@Saltisford

But ethnicity isn’t a choice is it? It’s determined by your ancestors? (Oh no we’re getting deep now!)

I suppose I would like it to be accurate for researchers or my descendants doing future family research but I know my family will all choose different options.

It isn't a choice but people with the same background can view their ethnicity in different ways - and the different ways people see themselves can be interesting for researchers too.

My four children gave different answers to this - I told the younger ones which ones were options they could pick from (I'm a Mestizo immigrant, their father is White British), but I pretty much left it in their hands as to which ones of those they felt best fit them. My DS1 views himself as White British, where as my DD1 views herself as Mixed (she went Mixed and Multiple ethnic backgrounds>Mixed Other> and then just put Mixed in the other box whereas I put Mestizo in that box).

[hannahmontanna1]

Personally I would say your ethnicity is Polish/German as opposed to English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish

[RuggeryBuggery]

Have you actually looked at the questions?
For my kids I put British as their identity (my eldest told me she felt this) but ethnicity as white other, then typed mixed British and “European country” as their dad is from that European country and only came here as an adult.

I think it’s how you define yourself

[dootdoot]

Britain is in Europe therefore if you're British you're European? You can't be "half British" and "half European" that doesn't mean anything

[vdbfamily]

I had this problem with my three children and I answered differently. For my eldest I chose European. I am a mixture of English, Irish and Scottish but my husband is half Czech and half German but born in London. DD identifies closely with her non UK heritage and is studying German and wears a pendant of Czech Republic round her neck. I wanted to reflect that. My other 2 are not that bothered so British was fine.

[BraveGoldie]

@shouldistop

I think there should absolutely be an option for black british, to be honest. Some british black people have families that have lived here for hundreds of years. That's another matter though.

is there not an option for black British? That's really bad. I'm in Scotland, can't remember the last time I saw a census form.

Yes the option for Black British is there.

What I was disappointed in was after choosing 'African' and asked for more detail, it didn't recognise Yoruba- instead suggesting 'Yorkshire'. Still let's you fill it in free text though.

Around 47 Million people in the world are Yoruban.... that's over two thirds of the whole of the UK.... and in the last census, 15k people in the uk identified Yoruban as their main language (that number would be far larger, I'm sure if it included those who are bilingual with English).... so a bit disappointing that it isn't in the UK's database as a predicted choice.....

OP, fill out what you feel for that question. The Government is asking about how people self-identify with this question. Citizenship is a separate question and that is factual, about your passport.

[Saltisford]

Thanks everyone for your points of view!

I would say then it depends on our individual understanding of what ‘ethnicity’ means.

For me, I was thinking it was based on my genetic makeup in the way that dna websites like Ancestry.com can define me as but I suppose it is much more complex than that.

[tttigress]

Some of the answers on here are making me laugh.

I think people putting White other because one of there Grandparents was Polish, and one of their Great grand parents was Greek - or whatever, are actually engaging in a game of trying to make themselves sound more interesting than they actually are.

Phycologists should examine this thread.

[Eyewhisker]

bylinetimes.com/2021/03/10/implying-anyone-who-is-not-white-is-not-english-is-a-bad-message-for-the-state-to-send/

[Eyewhisker]

If you do retain traditions from your another culture at home, it is perfectly reasonable to reflect that in your census answers.

[LunaHeather]

@sweetpotatopie12

Umm *@LunaHeather* in what universe is this a racist attack????

I was born in Germany to English parents doesn't make me German or European I'm British, says so in my passport.

Maybe dont be so precious and try and start spreading hate where there is none

I was very clear that I don't mean you. It's been said to me that I can't claim to be British because I am not white.

[LunaHeather]

• and horse, stable etc has been their explanation.

[georgarina]

Sounds like white British - your grandparents are European but your parents are British (even if born abroad). My stepparent was born in the Middle East due to army parents and my stepsiblings don't identify as Middle Eastern lol.

But at the end of the day up to you.

[Rummikub]

@Spillanelle

Interesting that most think OP should select White - British because she was born here. There is rarely an option on these forms for Black - British; even if you, your parents and grandparents were born here you generally have to choose Black - African, Black - Caribbean or Black - Other. Just an observation.

OP - I think you could probably either choose White - British or White - European. Whatever feels right to you.

This is very true
I have noticed this too

[tttigress]

Can I just say. If you for example your Husband is half Czech (even though born in London)and you daughter wears a Czech pendant, you should not be putting down White other, or Czech or whatever.

Why? Because you are actually degrading someone who is actually genuinely culturally a first generation Czech who has migrated to this country (wearing a Czech pendant is not the same as being Czech).

The census is actually designed to record different groups, so services can be allocated.

If you designate a White British person who happens to wear a Czech pendant as White other. You will not being helpi first generation Czech immigrants, we will instead be hindering them.

[BraveGoldie]

@tttigress

Some of the answers on here are making me laugh.

I think people putting White other because one of there Grandparents was Polish, and one of their Great grand parents was Greek - or whatever, are actually engaging in a game of trying to make themselves sound more interesting than they actually are.

Phycologists should examine this thread.

I don't think there is anything silly about it. For some families, their heritage will be irrelevant. For others, they may have a grandparent still living with them, function bilingually, follow traditions, recipes, rituals from their heritage country and have deep family ties and frequent visits to their heritage country/countries..... why on earth shouldn't they be able to express that in how they identify?

[Rummikub]

@Eyewhisker

The census describes Ethnicity as your cultural or family background. So what you feel best describes that background. My DD has a British passport but puts White European or White Other as none of her parents were born in Britain.

Is there an implicit racism revealed here that white immigrants are considered fully ‘British’ but non-white are still identified for generations by their ancestors’ ethnicity?

This ^^

Pp
Who has one British parent and one Cypriot parent put white British
(As is their choice, sorry just using as an example)
However if a person has a white parent and asian parent then they’d never put white British.

[tttigress]

"I don't think there is anything silly about it. For some families, their heritage will be irrelevant. For others, they may have a grandparent still living with them, function bilingually, follow traditions, recipes, rituals from their heritage country and have deep family ties and frequent visits to their heritage country/countries..... why on earth shouldn't they be able to express that in how they identify?"

Because, if you are identifying for example as Italian because one of you grandparents was Italian.

You are actually denigrating the experience of someone who is genuinely a first generation UK immigrant to the UK.

[BraveGoldie]

But it doesn't ask if you are a first generation immigrant. If it wanted to know that it would ask that. It asks some factual things (like citizenship, place of birth, and most recent move to the UK). It also asks how we would describe ourselves.... as it does in this question.

How is anyone denigrating anything? I could see your point if it asked you if you were x minority group; then asked you whether you felt discriminated/ were struggling in some way.... then if loads of people claim to be a minority group which they aren't conspicuously.... then claim not to be discriminated against.... then the government published 'findings' that x minority don't feel discriminated against....

But that's not happening here. The only 'finding' I can see coming from this is the finding that a large proportion of the population at least partly identify with cultures/ nationalities beyond the UK.... How is that bad or damaging or denigrating to know? Doesn't that simply demonstrate the fact that we are incredibly diverse, that people can identify in numerous ways, and that we can celebrate that?

[WhereHaveAllTheGoodTimesGone]

White British, White Other, White European... Any of those could fit. I don't see why you can't say you're White British though, that is accurate enough. It depends how you see yourself.

There is a good reason why we let people self identify their ethnicity, because it isn't always clear cut.

If you did a DNA test on me I would come up as mixed race technically (great great great grandparents being a mix of Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants and also Romany travellers on both sides as well as English, Scottish and God knows what else) but the fact is for many generations my family have been British and my skin is white. I wouldn't be lying if I said White Other or even White /Mixed or White/ Romany, but I don't feel I identify much with these other cultures as I wasn't raised as a traveller or a jew, or an immigrant. I could describe myself as such with a clear conscience but I don't feel it is as accurate as White British. I

Go with what is most appropriate for you, OP.

[ThePriceIsNotRight]

I’m a British citizen born in the UK, but my heritage is Serbian and Russian. I tick white European.

[PandaFluff]

Put however you identify your ethnicity

[WhereHaveAllTheGoodTimesGone]

@tttigress

"I don't think there is anything silly about it. For some families, their heritage will be irrelevant. For others, they may have a grandparent still living with them, function bilingually, follow traditions, recipes, rituals from their heritage country and have deep family ties and frequent visits to their heritage country/countries..... why on earth shouldn't they be able to express that in how they identify?"

Because, if you are identifying for example as Italian because one of you grandparents was Italian.

You are actually denigrating the experience of someone who is genuinely a first generation UK immigrant to the UK.

I can see it isn't helping the Italian community but it isn't harming them either. Italians are still white European like Polish or French or Romanian . Not exactly BAME are they?

[fiftiesmum]

What are the options - mine was done for me so I didn't get chance to see what was available.