to think that some non-religious parents over-react just a teensy-weensy bit when their children are exposed to religion in the most benign form?

[SueBarooeeooeeooooo]

s'ok if I am. But threads complaining about this sort of thing are a regular MN feature, and I can't help thinking that some parents seem tremendously precious about it. We're Christians and it often comes up that not everyone believes the way we do, and I talk to my children about it and they wander off and scribble on the lounge walls again.

I've seen people complaining about Christian mums and tots groups, simple 'thankyou' prayers and christian charities. I am 100% ok with you bringing your children up atheist, theist, or chocolate-worshipping. Honestly, if I whipped myself up into a panic over every mention of different beliefs or none that my children encounter, I'd never get anything done.

(Please note, this is not a church schools whinge, I'm against selection on religious grounds.)

Justa, I'm just waiting for the Messiah party Political broadcast, the rest of you can please yourselves

The problem is that there aren't many large enough places to run toddler groups provided by the council. Why? because I reckon they already know that the church halls provide it!!

Hence no secular options.

And why caqn't the volunteers just volunteer without their religious hat on?

justa, it's teatime. We are all too busy enjoying a rewarding conversation about the news with our children, over bowls of steaming allotment-grown vegetable soup. Aren't you?

quick bit re Christ's political message - I mean, it is suffused through his teachings but just a few pointers - The Beatitudes - 'the meek [the poor, powerless] shall inherit the earth, blessed are the peacemakers [which ties in with 'he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword' - advocating anti violent resistance to corruption] Matthew Ch 25 on the sheep and the goats - whenever you give food to the hungry, tend to the sick, visit prisoners, welcome strangers, you do it for Christ.All quite pertinet for political issues today [immigration, welfare system, etc]

Just the simple and repeated idea that the poor will inherit the earth and the rich cannot enter the kingdom of God is pretty political TBH, certainly anti-capitalist. And in His time, saying things like do not judge a woman for adultery before you judge yourselves was extremely political and dangerous.

Will go now !

I am strictly anti-religion because i grew up with it being forced down my throat and saw all the problems it caused and the hypocrisy shown by them - but i wouldn't complain about simple religious practices.

I think that the Bible is full of interesting stories and lessons and have no problems with my kids being taught about it.

If there is an event in a church or church hall then i wouldn't object to the odd prayer or relgious activity/song either.

The only issue i have had in my ten years of child-rearing is a summer holiday club thing that my eldest went to last year. It had a very strong religious element to it and i heard them telling the children things such as 'you are all born sinners' (absloute rubbish) and 'Jesus can be your real best friend' (i hardly think a fantasy figure can be a 'real best friend') and stuff like that that really made my blood boil.

They also had some running play thing they acted out and they left the concluding part and said that they would only find out how it ended if they attended church on Sunday which i also thought was a bit sly.

Apart from that over-bearing nonsense i have no issue with them being taught about it in school - as they are just recounting stories rather than thring to recruit them into their sect.

Onebat,so true what you say about faith schools. if us atheists can't go because we don't follow the christian religion, then surely we should have a reduction in our income tax, since we are banned from state provided services.

Its outrageous when you think of it.

I am very biased though and probably more sensitive towards this stuff than most because of my awful experiences whilst a child.

They do seem to try too hard sometimes though as they realise that churches are dying a death as their congregations are getting older and older every year.

Toddler groups don't have to be council or church run. I help run one. We rent a hall, provide activities and snacks - no council or church involvement. It's not that hard.

We have no council-run groups in our area. It's the Baptists, the Anglicans and us .

justa so sorry was not implying genuine deriliction of duty! Very impressed re halloween party.
more being wry on the cheap fish fingers and pasta and pretend veg that my kdis are having AGAIN.

Did they not make it clear it was a religious holiday club Eric? That is bad.

ruty, I thought that's what you'd say.

I tend to find that most people who say that Christ had a particularly political message always find - lo! - He had exactly the same politics as they do.

Church halls tend to be very cheap to hire though and very accomodating - that's the main reason.

They also tend to be in very convienient and localised places because of their age when built.

I know. We hire a Salvation Army hall. Doesn't mean we have anything to do with the church. None of us are SA.

Well - we know it is now. I just wish they hadn't made it so obvious and over the top cos the image they have now in the community is that they were running it just to get the kids into the church - rather than running it to help the community and teach some decent values.

Shame really. If they had pitched it a little better then they wouldn't have spoiled it so much.

EricL, was it youngsters running the club? They're quite a popular 'year out' option for some artsy younger Christians.

cringing @ Jesus can be your bestest fwend

I'm not an atheist. But I do run a secular toddler group.

i always think people who claim Christ had no political message do so because his politics don't suit theirs.

Justa completely agree!