Sorry, but £80k a year in London ^really is^ a large salary

[nickymanchester]

So I was just reading the "Unpopular Opinions" threads and I noticed more than one poster saying that £80k a year really isn't a lot of money in London or the SE.

What with being locked down again and not having much to do I thought I'd have a look at the actual figures as I had no idea which side of that argument is correct.

For full time workers who work in London, the median (average) pay is £39,500 (men £42,700, women £35,800).

If a person is earning £80k a year in London then they are on the 87th percentile. Although, if you're a woman that places you in the top 95%

(87th percentile means that you earn more than 87% of all people - ie you're in the top 13%).

Of course, areas of London are very different so I split London down as shown below.

The practical upshot is that, well, if you work in the City of London then I guess you could argue that £80k isn't necessarily a large salary.

You might even be able to get away with this if you work in Tower Hamlets. But elsewhere - not really.

.............................................75th.......Gender

Area......................Median...Prcnt......Pay Gap
City of London.....57,361....89,492....27.9%
Tower Hamlets.... 49,728....72,254....20.6%
Westminster.........43,597....64,038....15.7%
Southwark............41,948....59,816....11.4%
Camden................39,837....53,950....20.9%
Hammersmith......39,676....54,132....14.9%
Islington................39,312....59,587....8.1%
Lambeth...............37,866....55,458....15.3%
Hackney................36,748....46,540....9.4%
Waltham Forest....35,651....45,552....23.5%
Hillingdon.............35,183....52,390....5.5%
Lewisham.............34,913....46,608....-2.5%
Brent.....................34,866....48,064....8.5%
Hounslow.............34,809....50,528....5.2%
Richmond.............34,726....47,070....25.4%
Kensington...........34,445....47,242....4.4%
Croydon................34,086....45,146....18.8%
Havering...............33,821....46,249....-15.0%
Greenwich............33,181....45,427....6.0%
Kingston...............33,030....49,150....18.7%
Haringey...............32,812....44,840....-11.8%
Newham...............32,292....49,618....-1.8%
Sutton...................32,167....43,898....-2.4%
Wandsworth.........31,938....45,786....7.0%
Bromley................31,777....44,824....10.7%
Ealing....................31,418....45,001....-6.0%
Merton..................30,607....48,381....-11.0%
Barking.................30,482....39,988....13.5%
Redbridge.............30,306....45,157....-5.7%
Barnet...................30,092....47,362....9.3%
Enfield...................29,895....40,586....11.8%
Bexley....................28,174....39,614....11.3%
Harrow...................26,998....43,077....17.3%

And for comparison with people outside of London:-

London.................39,556....57,975
South East............31,647...44,704
Scotland...............30,820....41,855
East.......................29,895....41,449
North West...........29,099....40,820
West Midlands.....28,730....40,186
East Midlands......28,704....40,004
South West...........28,605....39,645
Yorkshire...............28,023....38,865
Wales....................27,966....38,392
Northern Ireland...27,487....37,903
North East............27,113....37,872

All figures are ONS latest 2020 figures extracted from NOMIS. Gender pay gap is for full time employees only.

Yes exactly sleeping. I run a food bank (that's not how I ended up with a high income, it goes without saying), so the "average" I see daily is very different. It's easy to get caught up looking one way and not the other. I'm hugely fortunate.

@EssentialHummus

...and private schools are a biggie, for obvious reasons.

But they're a lifestyle choice. Money's tight because of private schools isn't exactly the same as money's tight because of food. It might be a Biggie for you but that's a choice your able to make

It's a large salary, but living costs in London are also extortionate, so if you are a single person earning £80k you probably still wouldn't be able to easily afford to buy a house.

@EssentialHummus

Yes exactly sleeping. I run a food bank (that's not how I ended up with a high income, it goes without saying), so the "average" I see daily is very different. It's easy to get caught up looking one way and not the other. I'm hugely fortunate.

Might be worth getting the children involved in that when they're old enough so they learn to look both ways too.

But they're a lifestyle choice.
Money's tight because of private schools isn't exactly the same as money's tight because of food. It might be a Biggie for you but that's a choice your able to make

We're really not disagreeing, promise! . It absolutely is a lifestyle choice for the vast majority, but I absolutely see how some people can spend on all the extras (private school, expensive childcare, holidays, whatever else) and then get to the end of the month and feel they are left with nothing, even though objectively it's clear where the money's gone. It's an easy trap to fall into. Doesn't mean it deserves sympathy, but I can see how it happens - you get to a certain level and things can feel like essentials when they are anything but.

Might be worth getting the children involved in that when they're old enough so they learn to look both ways too.

Since I'm keeping DD out of nursery she's coming along most days, though I don't think she has a sense of what's happening beyond mum saying "This food is for people who are really hungry".

Sorry I thought it was like "private school is a biggie (priority because I don't want my little darlings missing with the state kids) that one couldn't possibly be expected to manage without.

I'd love a 50k Nanny. Anyone want to be my £50 Nanny lol

@EssentialHummus

Might be worth getting the children involved in that when they're old enough so they learn to look both ways too.

Since I'm keeping DD out of nursery she's coming along most days, though I don't think she has a sense of what's happening beyond mum saying "This food is for people who are really hungry".

She's totally thinking "like me when you're late with my toast" 🤣🤣🤣

Those figures are interesting - I live in the SW and the median wage is £28k + - Me, my DH, and both DS (all work full time) NONE of us earn anything LIKE that amount of money - I reckon a huge % of jobs here are minimum wage so goodness knows who is earning 6 figures to bump that figure up!

@wildraisins

It's a large salary, but living costs in London are also extortionate, so if you are a single person earning £80k you probably still wouldn't be able to easily afford to buy a house.

Yes you would if you lived in a cheaper rent area for a yr or two and really cut back on extras there is no reason why you could save £25k a yr thsys £50k in 2 yrs and then depending on what you buy and where you would be able to.

@fridgepants

"If you can't afford to live within walking distance of at least one tube station, you're not on a high salary for London."

So that would be almost everyone in SE London, then?

Depends really on whether they can only afford to live somewhere with enough space in South London or if they've actively chosen to live in South London because they want to be there. Everywhere in London, some people are compromising and others are happily living their best lives.

There's no denying that South London is a lot cheaper than the rest of the London postcodes. Like I said, it's a transport dead zone.

If you go north of the river, same sort of distance out, it's much better connected but the prices go up accordingly. Property prices have always been linked to how easy it is to travel, with tube preferred to National Rail (due to price and frequency).

@fridgepants

"If you can't afford to live within walking distance of at least one tube station, you're not on a high salary for London."

So that would be almost everyone in SE London, then?

Quite.

I have a London postcode (SE) but am on the Bromley London Borough borders. My nearest tube is by the O2 at Greenwich. Prior to that it was New Cross!

However the British Rail station is a walk down the road and can get into central London within half an hour so was never a problem when I worked in town.

I don't think you should be sorry about it, or to point it out.

@MustardMitt

That house someone posted up thread - go back to the search and filter low to high and you get a 3 bed flat for £260k

Yes it might not be in the nicest area. It might still cost a fortune to get to your job. But the privilege of choosing a 4 bed house and pointing out it’s not affordable beggars belief. How much do you think the hospital porters and shop assistants get paid? Are they ever going to be able to afford to buy a home?

I love London and would love to move back there - my family are from there. But it’s unreal how it seems like people on a ‘not high’ salary of £80k feel entitled to be living in a really nice area and putting their kids through private school when the reality is that they could compromise and save somewhere, but won’t. It’s alright for the povvos to live ‘somewhere they might get stabbed’ I spose

Clearly there are more 'affordable' properties and areas.

I live in one. In a not-nice -area. And at approaching retirement I have reached the dizzy heights of about £40k. So was on a LOT less when starting out and with young kids.

The point is that you might expect someone on a 'very high' salary of £80k to be able to aspire to more than a terrace house in any area other than London.

And sadly I can't see how a shop assistant or a hospital porter can afford a property in London, and certainly not big enough to bring up kids in .

Areas like S of Thornton Heath (the outskirts of the outskirts if you like, and not seen as either naice or leafy) are far cheaper - but you will spend a lot on fares.

However, more and more people are moving further and further out into areas that were once too far or too downtrodden to consider (see the 'where you won't get stabbed' comment in a PP - although that sort of thing drives me wild - the chances of a mature woman getting stabbed are miniscule anywhere) - and in turn that is driving 'gentrification', and the chances of porters and shop assistants get ever slimmer.

I am surprised by the average figures in the expensive Boroughs like Richmond,Kensington and Wandsworth.Considering the price of homes and the cars you see around (plus the kids in private schools)you would think the average wage would be more around £80.000 than mid £40.000...

Objectively it's a good salary.

I would say 70% of people I work with every day are on it or more. I'm a little bit off it but by no means on a low salary. None of those people are living wildly extravagant lives befitting someone of great wealth, most live in normal houses in the London commuter belt or zones 2/3. Most children go to state school.

Although... quite a few have a 'spare flat' lying around that they rent out because either they or their partner owned it when they met and they then bought somewhere else together. That's the bit that I don't have as they are of an age when that was possible (40s and above).

I wouldn't consider living somewhere that wasn't within walking distance of a tube station, let alone buying somewhere. There's a reason it's so cheap. Many Londoners don't see it as London

Which seems silly and snobby to me, and there are excellent rail connections in many places.

But it is true that areas OF LONDON which don't have the tube tend to be a lot cheaper.

But look at places like Herne Hill, North Dulwich, East Dulwich, places on the new Overground etc - hugely 'desirable'.

Selhurst is Croydon and not a very nice bit of it either. It's railway junction central so there are lines (ie train noise) all over the shop. Crime is high and central Croydon (nearest shopping centre) is a dump. You also have to rely on the dreaded Southern trains to get anywhere (traffic is bad). Pre-pandemic some employers wouldn't recruit people who lived in the area as the trains were so bad.

80k is way above average, but it’s not a large salary and in no way could you privately educate a child on that.

P.S I live somewhere with a reputation (and the stats) for being stab central.

It also has great community and the chances of getting stabbed are very specific.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs I know what the point is. But my counter point would be that saying your salary of £80k is not enough to live on because a person aspires to live in a nicer area doesn’t mean their salary is not high.

I live in a house that cost me £85k in 2007 and has only just got back up to that amount. Suffice it to say it’s not a fabulous area. But, it’s also not London, and my £40k salary goes a lot further.

Well it seems like a good wage to me! We live in the North West, I earn 50k and feel very well off! My husband earns 40k and we have a nice house and lifestyle (we don’t want private schools but we live in a grammar school area anyway).

@StiffyByng1

80k is way above average, but it’s not a large salary and in no way could you privately educate a child on that.

What has private school got to do with anything? Because you can’t afford private school doesn’t make it ‘not a large salary’.