to have shouted at a builder

[Spink]

whose scaffolding I walked under (ds in his buggy) when a shower of plaster chunks came down on us?

It wasn't just plaster dust which I guess you expect when walking under scaffolding, but chunks. A piece the size of a £2 coin bounced off ds's buggy.

Anyway, it started off fairly politely. I called up to the man on the platform & said something like -don't know if you know, but there is plaster coming down onto the pavement- He then YELLED at me "There's a bloody sign up... if people can't be bothered to cross the road that's their lookout.." yep, cos when I'm with my baby, I'm too lazy to look out for his welfare.

To be fair, there was a 'Danger, men working' sign, but it was small (about A3?) and it was attached to the scaffolding about 3m above the ground, so nowhere near eye level. I shouted back at him a bit less politely that it obviously wasn't visible. And we ranted at eachother for a little bit before I stomped off.

Do most people avoid walking under scaffolding because chunks of falling building is a common hazard? I'd kind of assumed that if it isn't cordoned off, it is still reasonably safe, especially if it isn't signed properly? But maybe I am just scaffolding-naive?

if there are people working on the scaffolding above I never walk underneath tbh

Honestly? I wouldn't walk underneath scaffolding where I could see men were working. They can't help things dropping down, and if there is any other path available then I would use that every time.

I must admit that I don't walk under scaffolding any more - ever since I saw a hammer falling from the third storey

But it doesn't sound as if they are taking adequate care if they are over a footpath - nor does it sound as if their signage is very good. So no, I don't think you are being unreasonable.

And I might be tempted to phone my local highways department (usually at the County Council) and ask them to have a quiet look to see if their health and safety measures are up to scratch.

Bear in mind they have tools up there - the next thing that drops down might not be a piece of plaster, it might be a hammer. Not worth the risk.

dh says It shouldn't have happened as If it is across a pathway it should be sheeted to stop that hapening. so no yanbu

I don't think so. I had the same sort of discussion with a builder a few weeks ago who was knocking the render off a building near me, except he was pissed off that his bosses had only put up a sign instead of cordoning off the whole area.

well I think I'll be crossing roads to avoid walking under scaffolding in the future..
but I am still pissed off that putting a sign up makes him think it was ok not to take care, with cordoning off or putting a net up or something. Particularly as it is a footpath on a busy road, on the bend so not easy (or very safe) to cross there.

Does anyone know the legalities? If someone were to be injured, could the builder really say "there was a sign up" and therefore not be responsible??

He has to observe health and safety laws.

Phone your Council and ask them to check it out. Environmental Health and/or the Highways Department should be able to advise you.

Spink, sorry to say but you lack common sense in this instance

kittywitch, yes I know it maybe wasn't entirely surprising and it is part of a learning curve - one of those things that wouldn't bother me, and I wouldn't even think about before having ds.
BUT.
still think that if you are putting scaffolding up, you have some responsibilities about safety..

I agree Spink BUT these ARE builders we're talking about here and they don't give a toss !

... cue the MNers whose husbands are builders

If the scaffolding is over a public footpath that hasn't been closed then the builders/scaffolders surely MUST have a duty of care to the public for their safety whilst walking under the scaffolding!

I personally would NOT have crossed the road as IMO it's up the scaffolders to ensure that no dangers to the public are present, or that they take adequate measures to close off said pathway if it is clear that the public could be at risk.

I agree about getting H&S people to check them out.

YANBU!

If there is a sign up then AFAIK, it woudl be your own fault if anyone got hurt unless you could prove they were not taking adequate care to avoid people being hurt.
There is obviously not adequate care being taken if by walking under scaffolding (which is made so it can be walked under) you then get hit by something.
But tbh I think its sensible not to walk under scaffolding and also not to then get in an argument with the builders, they are afterall doing their job, which isnt to see if people are reading their signs, but to build.

it should be cordoned off. If it isnt then it should be sheeted - after all blind people can't be expected to read signs. or cross the road, always.

Spink, like you I would of walked under the scaffolding...yes tis' eay to say shouldn't/wouldn't etc, but when your busy and thinking of the 100 things you have to do, it's easy to be a tad oblivious.

Thankfully neither you nor your DS were hurt...as for the twat that couldn't even be polite, don't waste another second thinking aout him.

lorayn, I kind of have to laugh at myself for shouting at the man, it is one of those things that becoming a mother has brought out in me! I never never never would have done that before...

having said that, surely part of the job of being a builder is to make sure your site is safe

praps it wasn't that individual's responsibility, if he wasn't in charge of the site, and in that case I do think I was wrong to yell at him. ..

well dh is in the building trade.

YANBU

Oh I had a little chuckle at the OP being 'scaffolding' naive!

YANBU.

Well in the all the years that dp has employed biulders/scaffolders etc he has never come across a single one that gave a toss about H&S, infact he was always having to check up on them as they would never wear saftey goggles/ helmets blah, blah.
they are not interested in whether the site is safe.
It's not the job of the indivudual builder, it's the job of the 'site manager'.

YANBU, call the council if you want to make a complaint. The site manager should have taken steps to ensure no-one could be hurt by falling debris. If that's not possible, they have to cordon off that section of pavement. They are legally responsible for any injuries they cause, btw.

yabu

kittywitch, you are wrong, whilst overseeing of H&S is the responsibility of the site agent, it is also the responsibility of the individual to make themselves aware of and comply with any health and safety issues surrounding the task in hand. In DP's experience, it is often the site agents who don't give a toss, he has often had to ask for safety nets, to be put in place, told to use ladders when the work dictated scaffolding etc etc. Thankfully, DP now works for himself and is very thorough about health and safety and safe work practice.

Spink, technically you are in the right, as the workmen should have ensured that no debris could fall where the general public are walking. Personally i never walk under scaffolding with DD, for the reason that accidents can and do happen.

I used to work in a lab, on the mirrors in the toilets were little signs that read: The person looking back at you, is the person most responsible for your safety.

of course if anything had happened to ds I would have felt enormously to blame - his wellbeing is my responsibility.

but the bloke was unnecessarily rude, IMO. I only started shouting because he was nasty any excuse for a bunfight..