fees may not be worth their weight...

[JandDmom]

My son goes to the dearest school in our county. Up to now, he's in year 3, we've been more than happy with the cost vs. education. He's very bright and up to now has recieved the attention that "we've paid for". (read smaller class size, so more attention time in relation to teacher/child ratio). In the previous 3 years he was read with no less than 3 times per week. He's a foracious reader and quite a bit ahead of his class. This year so far, school started Sept 5th., he's read 4 times with a teacher. This is because, teacher says, that other students require more time because they dont' read as well as your son.

Am I being unreasonable to think that just because my son reads better than others that he should get less time. I pay just as much as the other parents, so shouldn't my child recieve just as much time?

Reading isn't the only thing that gets shorted for my son. Pretty much every subject gets shorted with him just because he can do the work. He is given "busy" work so that he's got something to do after he's finished the assigned work. The teacher just doesn't have the time to challenge him because she's busy helping the other children with their work. I don't want to take away from the other children because they deserve to be challenged as well. But it seems to me that my son is losing out just because he's smart.

The previous years' teachers always recognized this in my son and were able to challenge him without taking away from the other children in the class. I guess my question is...Do I confront the teacher/head? There's a good chance that we'll be moving before the school year's out, so I don't want to make waves, but at the same time I can't really see the value for the amount of fees we're paying.

Any advice?

My DD has always been way ahead on her reading (no not G & T just a bookworm) and is at independent school too. We just let her take the books she wants to school. She has always read "off piste" and not the reading scheme. She reads to me a couple of times a week and we talk about what she has read so that I can check the comprehension.

At some point I am sure that your child is going to need the teacher's time - and he will get it if it is a good school. Don't equate the amount you pay with quality of education.

I have to say if I was paying for my child to be at the most expensive school in the county and was being told by a teacher that he doesn't get as much attention because other children need the teacher more I would be flaming livid!

DD1 in reception reads to teacher daily, and also brings a reading book home each night with spelling / word matches. I thought this was the norm? (Class size 7)

Hate to say it but, if you think he is unchallenged now, you are likely to be very disappointed with education on the continent. ds' ex-international school was about 12k a year(at year 2 equivalent) and definitely not good value in comparison.

For reception, yes, but this is Year 3 (so first year of juniors) and the curriculum is a lot broader. Ds1 is in Year 2 and is still heard to read daily by teacher or TA, but I'm not sure how long that will continue.Bottom 4 of the class get additional one to one support (most don't speak English at home). Top 3 or 4 get some extension work, but as in most schools they just do more advanced examples of the main class work.

But teacher's response seems inappropriate.

I remember finding reading to the teacher deathly boring at school because it was so slow! I would expect that only children with reading difficulties to still need to be reading to the teacher on a regular basis (my ds in yr4 still needs to as he's dyslexic). There are other ways of testing comprehension once your reading reaches a certain level, and I think the reading "like Stephen Fry" is an public speaking/acting rather than a reading skill. But if you think the extra work he is being given is not well thought out then you should challenge it, I guess. Even at an expensive school you can get average teachers, and that may be the case for you. On the spelling side ds got som much easier words the other day, but it turned out this was related to the grammar they were doing (ds was relived, he loves grammar and hates spelling!)

I would definately discuss it further with the school, but I would bear in mind that:-

1. If your child is happy where he is then that is the most important thing: I would only kick up a stink if he is showing signs of being bored/frustrated.

2. Switching to a state school might be a difficult transition for him (esp re making new friends etc etc) and if you then moved and switched again then a second switch in 12 months could be very difficult for him to cope with.

3. A state school may be very good, but there is the possibility that your son might get even less attention - how would you feel then?

I think you pay for more than just hope of a higher academic achievement with a private school - you pay for smaller class sizes, for facilities, for extra-curricular stuff and so on; I think you should weight this up in any 'is it worth it?' consideration... if your child is happy and flourishing, then maybe your concerns are more around what you want for him academically than what he needs himself to make him happy all round?

having read your thread I am wondering if it is really the reading that is causing your concern - I have had similar frustrations for my son in the past so I think I may be able to identify somewhat. In the case of my son - he was well above average at all subjects, pretty studious and well behaved - therefore he really didn't draw the teachers attention as he ticked all the boxes - another mother described him to me as the class grey man - I wonder if you are feeling like this and it is coming to the surface over reading. This was at a private but non selective school - we moved him at the start of year 3 to an academically selective school that had an intake at this age and for which he did an entrance. To be frank it hasn't resolved all the frustrations but the school focus is so much nearer his and ours that it makes a big difference- Have you considered this option perhaps? Good Luck

yabu

I've taught in a prep school, and I will say that the biggest challenge was dealing with parents who want individual attention for their children - extra work for them, work to do during their termtime holidays, etc. - then wanting copies of test/exam papers to check the marking.

What they don't realise is that they are paying for their little darlings to be educated in a class with other children - they are not paying for private tuition.

I work in a private school, and I like to think that I have a one-on-one relationship with every girl I teach. My KS3/4 class sizes range from 10 - 14, so it is pretty easy to make contact with each girl in every lesson. I haven't really come across parents making specific demands of the exact kind of relationship I have with their daughters each lesson. It is a very valid educational practice to get more able pupils to 'teach' the less able - it's a win-win situation. Being able to teach a topic requires a higher level of understanding, and so the more able pupils are stretched when they do this.

One of the things to mention that when moving to a new Key Stage, eg from 1 to 2, or from 2 to 3, is that all the children are taught as equals for the first few weeks. It's really normal for a bright child to coast at the beginning of prep, and seemingly repeat work that they had already mastered. This is the same in the maintained sector, but it is something that really bugs parents in the private sector, especially newbies.

As for the value of private education - there's a lot more to it that the academic curriculum.

Dear Scary Science,
I can appreciate what you say. I've taught in a private school. I know what's it's like. But all I want is for my child to be taught just like all the rest. If he was in the lower half of the bell curve, there'd be no problem, no doubt. What my cry is, is just because he's in the top part of the bell curve, doesn't he deserve to be treated to the same level as the others? Doesn't he derserve the same challenges to his level?

My problem with the reading is very little compared to the rest. But just because he doesn't need to read aloud doesn't mean he doesn't need the same challenges to his comprehension as other children. Surely the school can come up with or has a plan for those children who don't read aloud to challenge their comprehension? I've found websites that let you monitor their comprehsion through questions after a book's been read. Granted, it's a US based site so we only have about a 3rd of the books, but still.

Just being frustrated, I think.

Dera LIZS,
I know about the continent. We've been to a numer of schools, mostly international and have thought that our son is at least 1-2 years ahead of what they were doing. What we're looking for is a bi-lingual school where some lessons are taught in English and some in the native tongue. That way DS1 would be challenged. Also, these schools would be open to the needs of DS1 so language lessons and extra work would be available. The admission process is very thorough so they would know from day one what DS1 required for stimulation.

sorry but you are deluding yourself. I have seen various friends try a mixture of systems and none have yet been challenged successfully to the extent you seem to desire. The language itself might be a challenge short term but academically more limited. Where are you considering ?

We'e got the option of Zurich, Munich and Barcelona. Granted Barcelona seems very far out of reach for business reasons, but the other 2 seem okay. We've looked at schools at both places.

You probably won't find what you are looking for in Zurich ime. Which have you visited there ?

DH looked at ZIS, thought it too "American" for his liking, (this coming from a guy born and raised in LA!). We talked to Lakedside and Terra Nova, but both were over subscribed.

I'd be interested in your thoughts into bi-lingual schools in Zurich. The more information I have the better choice I can make.

Thanks,

I think you need to be more specific about what you want from the school, and what you mean by "challenging".

If he is getting "busy" work to do then he is getting special work compared to the other children in his class.

You say you want him to read out loud, and then say later on that this isn't much of a problem.

What exactly do you want the school to do? If your not focused on what needs to be done then the school won't be able to meet your requirements.

ZIS won't stretch him , ds went there and the regular influx of non English speakers means the standard of teaching is diluted to accommodate them. I believe that is less true of the Middle and Upper school though.

Both those bilinguals are on the oppposite side of the lake to ZIS (known as the Gold Coast) so have no personal experience although think Terra Nova is relatively recent anyway. You might want to join groups.yahoo.com/group/Expat-Moms-In-Switzerland/ for more recent local opinions. ICS has the reputation of being a more academic International school but hard to get a place at.

or actually groups.yahoo.com/group/Families-in-Zurich/ this one might be better.

Perhaps I should add we moved back to UK partly because they weren't really stretching our fairly average but motivated ds and the gap between him and his UK peers was only going to widen before it narrowed iyswim.

Journey,
I don't think I ever said that I wanted him to read out loud. That's not the issue. The issue is the time spent with one or two sets of children to challenge them with their reading adn comprehension and another amount of time adn care spent with my child. I don't actually care how much reading aloud he does. What I care about is the amount of challenge he's give compared to the other children in his class. If it could be shown to me that the time he spent reading was equal in educational value to the others in his class, I wouldn't care if he spent the time reading aloud to the teacher or silently to himself. I just want to know that he's not being short-changed in his reading comprehension (and other things as well), just because he's in the top group.

Being academically gifted shouldn't mean that he's given 3 sheets of the same work. If he can do 1 sheet easily, then he should be given the next stage up, not just more of the same to keep him occupied. I don't believe being given "busy" work counts as being challenging. Also, I don't think it counts as being given "special works as compared to the rest of the class". I just think it means that the teacher wants to keep him occupied so there's one less student to keep an eye on.

I know that that opinion going to raise some people's blood pressure, but remember I've been a teacher. I know what it's like to have 30 7yr olds and only 1 of you in a class and be expected to control them. If there's somehting you can give them to occupy them, then you do it. So I sympathise with his teacher, but I also know that there's things you can give to spark thought and challenge children. And she's only got 17 of them and DS1 is very self-motivating. He wants to learn more.

I also want to add that I'm not the only mom in the class to have these concerns. There's another little boy with the same abilities as my DS1 and she's a lot more vocal than I am!

Just my opinion,

LIZS,
Thank you for the information. I've actually been a member of both yahoo groups for about a year now. There's a lot of good information to be had and everyone is very friendly.

Thanks again.

Then you'll already be aware of the ups and downs of each system and the issues which expats face in their decisions.