Not to want to work Christmas?

[2bamum]

OK first I've name changed, second I'm going to change some of the facts slightly so please if I say 7 once then 8 don't be suspicious I just don't want everyone to work out who I am!
That's it really. I work in a department of 8 people someone has to work every day of the year no choice, it will mean working probably from 9 am until about 6 or 7 then being available by phone within 20 ish minutes of work for discussion and a probably 20% chance of going back in in the evening.

Normally who works when is agreed by discussion (invariably for normal people some want to work Christmas some New Year). This year there has been no discussion, my boss knows I am intending to leave (I have subsequently resigned but NOT for this reason) and in an effort to get the maximum return for her investment has produced a schedule which means I am working Christmas. I have been told this was done on purpose. The schedule was designed by a flunkie such that either me, him or his best mate would be working Christmas unsurprisingly he made this me.

I am the only person at work with children.

Whilst I fully recognise the rights of those without children to have a family Christmas or a holiday or an opportunity to booze ad infinitum (which is why for the first approximately 10 years of my life I worked EVERY Christmas) I feel that work is being unreasonable.For example one collegue got very cross with me because she feels that as one of 2 carers for her Mother her caring role isn't 'recognised' as much as mine and has equal status, I feel it is more complicated than that because my dh works in the same field so we have this problem multiplied by 2 every year and can never work the same day (it being illegal to leave small children home alone!) hence if we don't co-ordinate in some way we will get no breaks/bank holidays etc, it also transpires that her reason for not wanting to work Christmas is that her husband can take time off work without loosing any money but if he takes time of at other times he might loose work oportunities.

At the very least I feel Christmas should have been left out of the schedule and discussed separately.

So AIBU?

Nursey they knew!!
Pleased to hear you're still strutting your funky stuff NNB I now view NYE as an excellent opportunity for some sleep!
LDDD no Jedi knights on your schedule then?

yeah for pointydog....

they won't be happy. But often happier than the alternative.

OK, so you have resigned anyway. Your notice can't extend much beyond Xmas. Simply negotiate a new leaving date of 21st December.

If this was done on purpose then you are not being unreasonable, they are being unfair to you to have done this with no discussion.

I have worked christmas and new year in the NHS (both one year) and it was always decided with us all having put our work preferences forward to whoever was organising shifts, and on who had worked what days in previous years, which I think is the fairest way to do it, not everyone is going to get the shifts they want but hopefully people should get something they want, and its unbiased. Generally it was the mums of younger children who prefered either late or night shifts mums, of older ones prefered earlies, single younger people generally were more interested in pre christmas and new year parties so it usually worked out ok and there were few problems because people felt it had been done as fairly as possible.

unfortuantely this doesnt seem to have been decided fairly at all, have you approached anyone about it? I hope you get something sorted

Helen Unfortunately as I said it is an almost uniquely unloyal job, I think my collegues are all secretely congratulating themselves for not landing Christmas, they have all demended extensive time off at Christmas, some louder than others. For some pretty nebulous reasons IMHO ie for one her dh might loose money, another wants to spend Christmas with her in-laws . One has yet to start work (actually I might just get her to do it!!)
When I broached the subject of taking affected days out of the schedule to be allocated separately in agreement fairly and to allow all these holidays I was throughly shouted down for expecting Christmas off simply because I have children! I do like my collegues they are nice fun people but I think I have landed a remarkably self absorbed bunch
Kaloo for reasons I can't go in to on here that is not possibly unfortunately.

oh dear i dont know. at my old place of work, there was once a heated discussion (actually a big eff off row) between myself and another colleague. i had always booked off whitsun week to be with my ds. she (childless young person) was organising a holiday with her pals. i tried to reasonably suggest that i needed whitsun week off more than her, as she could book her holiday any time she wanted, i didnt want to take ds out of school so whitsun was perfect for me.

she said she didnt think i cared anyway if ds was out of school...which was like a red rag to a bull considering how much time he had spent in hospital. i told her she was an utterly selfish cow.

although from her point of view, i suppose it would piss her off that i always booked that week.

2bamum...it is not that I do not care.. it is just that some sectors of the working world and some types of jobs involve holiday wotking.. this is their way.. others do not.. I am simply saying if you don't like it then do something else...

FYI - this year I have missed pretty much all the pubic holidays due to travelling with work... the only way I can stop this for next year is change job.. there is a high risk of it happening again....

OD I feel your concern
However to say to someone who has nearly burst through that glass ceiling and has spent more years than I'm going to mention getting there 'well if you don't like being bullied by your boss go get another job someone has to do it' is a bit of nonadvice really!I had also made it pretty clear I've worked loads of Christmasses and was hoping for a discussion not a smart nonreply.
However I recognise your right to post and thank you for your opinion. That obviously helps essential services if everyone resignes because they are unhappy!
Offering a bit of bank holiday travel for work as evidence of your empathy isn't really the same, maybe you/your boss should organise your work better?

ok .. so you can't leave early, but surely a stress related illness starting in 3 weeks time(and you do sound stressed) until you leave will keep you off work and take you out of the rota altogether . There really isn't very much they can do about it and it would take HR longer than Xmas to react to the situation.

Saying that, I'm self employed and work every day god sends - and a few evenings too, but over the years I have seen stress related illness used to get people out of situations. It keeps them off for weeks covering school holidays and other sticky periods in their personal lives .....

If you are leaving - be ruthless and think they may be your colleagues now but how many of them are true friends you will reguarly keep in touch with once you move on ..... + they are willing to use you to meet their own gains. Follow suit

harsh but reality

YANBU, but I think it is understandable that this as happened. Did you have to resign so early?

Not really got anything of use to add sorry.
I think in todays multi cultural society all religious holidays should be national holidays, there are enough non Christian people in the work places to cover Christmas holidays, who in turn would have time off to enjoy their own religious celebrations.

what would happen if you were a committed christian? would there be some grounds for complaint under the discrimination based on religious belief legislation. ( i know this may not help you.... just wondering..)

what would happen if you didn't turn up? not like they can sack you...you're going anyway...

just not turning up is going too far .... just my opinion.

I think it is very unfortunate that there wasn't a discussion over the schedule, however, I think your reasons for not wanting to work Christmas aren't valid from your workplaces point of view:

1. You're bringing in too many personal reasons. Yes you have children (and I totally understand why you want the time off) but people in your workplace, who you say don't have kids, will just start to yawn when they hear this. It will switch them off.

2. Why are you attacking the person who is a carer? BIG MISTAKE. That was wrong and very inconsiderate. Carers should be given the same rights as people with children and a lot of firms are putting this in their HR policies.

3. Your rationale over your issue with your DH well sorry but again that's your personal circumstances. If I was your manager I would be thinking well that's all very well but my other staff have their own personal circumstances which they've chosen not to air to everybody in the dept.

4. If work knew you were going to be leaving then of course you're going to be the one is going to have to work over Christmas. Rightly or wrongly that always happens.

Next time try not to attack people in the workplace and get too personal it will just open up a can of worms. Negotiate instead.

I know the above sounds harsh but hopefully taking a different approach if it happens again will get you what you want.

2bamum.. don't mean to offend.. just stating the obvious I guess... I am not religious at all so Christmas is a bit over hyped for me.. I like to make sure my daughter has a good one but it is no different to anyother holiday in the year in reality.. unless of course you are religious...

As for the other holidays (inc easter).. unfortunetly the middle east and Europe have their vacations on different time to the UK so if they are working and I need to be there then I am there.... if I don't like it I will do something else.. that was my comparison... I aslo run the risk of missing xmas because of Israel..

Anyway I am going to leave this one alone now as I guess there is really no simple easy answer to your dilema

I work for the NHS, so does DH, so understand what a pain sorting out Christmas is every year - I now write the rotas so tend to end up with even worse off duty so colleagues won't think I have given myself the best shifts! I sympathise with your frustration that this was decided with no discussion, but do agree with others that having children does not make anyone 'more' entitled to Christmas off than someone else.

Could you discuss it with colleagues and go to your boss with a solution rather than a complaint ie. split the shift on Christmas day with another colleague and work the other half at a time to suit them? Or offer to work Boxing Day and New Years Day if you can have Christmas off? Could you take on a few 'on calls' for a colleague if they worked for you during the day - anything creative to tempt someone to work at least part of Christmas Day for you so you can have family time?

Hope you manage to get something sorted

My DH is working Christmas its rubbish , i am off but only because i am on maternity leave bet i ger rostered next year to work but thats part and parcel of working for an airline can't they not FLY for one day!!!!!

Message withdrawn

Surely there must be at least one jew or muslim in your group who would quite happily do christmas because it's not a family time for them and all the stores are closed anyway.

Thanks journey and opinionateddad and thanks everyone else too.
Stress/sick/not turning up is definately not an option.
Interestingly I think most on here are saying that children doesn't equal right to have Christmas off which of course it doesn't/shouldn't. However I think it should be taken into the equation just as who worked it last year and who cares for others and who plays the organ in Church and whose other half also repeatedly works Christmas (journey I disagree with you there organisations who rely on small numbers of poeple repeatedly working when everyone else doesn't have to think about how they will extract the fair amount of work from both parties otherwise if they do it at random it will lead to people pulling all sorts of tricks simply because they can't leave their kids alone not beacuse they just don't fancy it IYSWIM)
FWIW I did not go in shouting about not working Christmas because I had children the topic came up in a discussion about holidays.
I am also very much not attacking the carer her reason for not working Christmas isn't 'caring' it's the 'my dh might loose work opportunities unless he takes time off then' I think carers and parents are generally on the same side in this and I would support her right to have time off to 'care' just as much as my right to have time off to 'parent' (and have in fact done so), had she said I need Christmas off because I have to 'care' it would have been a totally different kettle of fish.

Hammerhead I so get where you're coming from writing the thing is dreadful I avoid doing it at all costs now. Interesting this writer doesn't seem to have given himself a single festive day why could I never be so brazen?

I think my inability to negotiate is bacause everyone is secretely congratulating themselves on not getting Christmas, the first thing they discussed as a group was for everyone to put in bids for the whole Christmas week off.

I will probaby be posting about the same thing next year, both dh and myself will be leaving to go up the ladder and are both guaranteed to get Christmas (one workplace tradition ) and New Year the following year, THAT will take some negotiating around!

i work every other nite so i am either here after 7.30 or go to work at 8 at nite so bearable if it falls on your nite you have to do it xx

Well, last year was the first in my working life that I didn't work. Not Christmas Day, but Christmas Eve, up to gone 10pm, Boxing Day, from 8am and all of New Year. Every year. For the last few years, I was also in charge of the scheduling and got to decide who else worked as well.

I know you feel as if you have been crapped on, but when everyone might have to work a day that they don't want to, whether you have children or not is not an issue. If you so desperately want to spend Christmases at home then you should get a job where you can do that.

It is awful, choosing who gets to work over the Christmas period. I simply used to rota the staff and say that they were free to swap amongst themselves as long as we were covered to get the shifts that they preferred.

Someone has to work. And everyone hates the "I've got kids" excuse.

I'm sorry, but all of that stuff should NOT be taken into account. (kids/church organ/other responsibilities) Do you have any idea how bloody hard it is scheduling that crap?

I appreciate where you are coming from but since it is highly likely you will get Christmas off next year I would just bite the bullit and get on with it.

I am in a similar position myself. I worked New Year last year and it is my turn to work Christmas next year. My DH works shifts and he is off both this year but he usually works one or the other. My youngest DD(14yrs) is desperatae to have her mum and dada together for Christmas day (DH worked last year)so i would like to work the early shift. Problem is that 2 other colleagues think the same. We only need 2 on. They also had Christmas off last year and have grown-up children - however they still want to be off.

Do I give in and do the late shift Christmas day and miss out on the family dinner or do I stand my ground and we do a ballot to see who will work it.

DH says do ballot, I tend to want to give in because I don't want to force others to do what I don't want to. Get my drift.

Answers on the back of a postcard please