To think 'friendships' between school girls can be totally toxic?

[inexcessive]

Hi all, My DD12 has just returned to school in Year Eight. She has a group of 'friends' in her all girls school some of whom are lovely but lately it has all turned incredibly toxic.

There's a couple of girls in the group who seem intent on stirring up trouble and who, for example, persistently tell lies about my DD to the group. This has recently caused an explosion of accusations and recriminations on Whatsapp where I have had to step in. The things being said to my DD were fairly horrible and shocking.

One part of my question is to ask whether AIBU to think this is fairly common? I certainly experienced similar when I was at school.

But also, does anyone have any strategies I can offer to help my DD deal with it? I feel completely out of my depth in terms of how to advise her and she is absolutely miserable and out of her depth too.

I was the school nerd, too. I remember my DD having a lot of trouble in year 7 with the 'popular' kids and I said that, when I was at school, they were always horrible. In the end, she had an epiphany and told me that, actually, no one liked them so they weren't popular at all. It was all an illusion that they'd created for themselves

My Y7 charge (I'm her nanny) is already experiencing all this after only being there a few week. It's so so sad. A LOT of toxic stuff already ready. I can remember it from my secondary days and it never got easier but starts for sure very early with girls! There were problems similar to this from around year 4... now she has a phone though it has stepped up

DD (15) experienced some of this and actually told the Queen Bee to bog off in front of a whole group of people! She’d been bitching behind DD’s back.

DD then hung out with other girls and after a few months, reached a grudging truce with the QB. Now they’re quite friendly!

It definitely helps if they have other friends through activities and outside school. DD plays various sports and she’s kept up with her primary school friends who scattered to various secondary schools. I know she’s asked them for advice before.

Hang in there, it does get better!

My eldest is a boy in year 9 and actually had a very rough time in year 7/8 despite being very popular in primary school. He has friends outside of school and despite this is quite self assured, he's socially way beyond his years and is witty so just came to the conclusion they were immature losers. I think the air of not caring has helped as he doesn't have any issues at the moment.

My DD is in year 5 and is quite young in her outlook but it is starting to notice the behaviour of girls that is unnecessarily unkind. What I don't understand is how this comes about as the parents seem 'ok'. Itvis really important to me for my children to be kind but it seems not many people care for that anymore.

Ma daughter is still in primary snd this kind of behaviour is already raising its ugly head.

She has lots of friends, but there are,a couple of girls who just like to cause drama and seem to enjoy talking behind people's backs.

Both girls have lovely non-drama llama mums.

I just tell my dd not to engage in bitchiness and to never say something about someone that you would be embarrassed to admit to in front of them. Also, to walk away from any dramas.

I believe that Queen Bees book is the one that inspired Tina Fey to write Mean Girls btw.

I don't have a teen but just wanted to chime in that 13-14 was definitely the worst age for me too in terms of friendships etc.

I think giving the air of not caring (even if you really do) definitely helps. I love this article and wonder if the "3 second neutral look" could be applied to teen girls too https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/style/modern-love-what-shamu-taught-me-happy-marriage.html

Also I've always been a big believer in giving as good as you get. I remember the girl that bullied me at primary school (who had a celebrity dad) was very tubby and despite her and her gang saying and doing the most horrible things to me my mum not only refused to intervene but told me I wasn't allowed to retaliate and call her "fat" in front of everyone. I look back now and think, why? It might finally have stopped her bullying.

I know a couple of QueenBees now and I’m 46.🤣
As other have said, I just avoid them and refuse to get pulled into the drama. I know they must talk about me the way they do other people so it’s not worth trying to be friends. It’s weird how some people never move past this stage even when they’re professional adults and parents themselves!

Smile and wave!

Sadly, it is very common with teenage girls. The bad news is that it can happen a few times through those years. It just seems to be part of the process for so many ...

Yes, I found this at the school gates, too. Some were very similar to their children. The apple doesn't fall far and all that...

I remember being about 14-15 and my whole group of friends fell out with me on the say so of one girl. It was awful. I refused to go back to school properly. It affected my exams etc. Girls can be bloody horrible to each other.
Funnily enough when we left school I became quite friendly with the 'queen bee' who had instigated it all and she was actually lovely! Goes to show what abit of growing up can do!
If I ever have a girl I will be sure to just remind her to kill them with kindness, nobody likes a mean girl

I remember this well and find hindsight is a great helper (although not helpful for your DD at this stage)

I had a best friend who if someone else wanted to sit next to me or if someone fancied me and not her would completely blank me and make me feel like shit. I'm very sensitive and things like this would floor me and I'd spent the entire time agonising over it and the next day she would be completely fine again.

Now we are still friends (20 years on) and because of her relationships with partners I've come to realise she is a very jealous person. Looking at their relationship objectively I can see she over reacts, can be very hormonal, fly off the handle etc. All the things she would do with me but I didn't have the life experience to recognise what it was back then.

Totally normal unfortunately. Girls make friends, fall out, make friends , fall out..... and as they have online in your face 24 hour access to be nasty little bees to each other, I think it’s particularly hard when they are on the receiving end. I would block the trouble makers, tell her they will get bored and move on ( such a cliche but sooo true) and talk to her about the importance of never limiting yourself to one friend. That never ends well. It’s really rough out there growing up these days. 💐

Sadly at my work we still have drama in all ages!!! I stay well out of it.

YES YANBU. I'm amazed how normalised really bad behaviour seems to be in girls' friendships. For so many girls it seems totally to be expected that there'll be control, jealousy, gossip and exclusion. I've stopped my DD watching a couple of her fav American sitcoms about school because they are all about drama and 'frenemies' and trouble in girls' friendships and being sassy . . . . . there isn't much depiction of really healthy friendships. My DD has a super-controlling friend, it's caused her great anxiety. If they were grown-ups and in a romantic relationship it would be termed 'coercive control'. When I've broached it with the parents of the other girl they just keep saying that they have different approaches to friendship, as if their DD has a totally valid approach to my DD and they need to respect each others' different ways of being friends. I disagree, I think there are good ways of being a friend, and bad ways. And too many girls seem to think it's OK to be a bad friend.

Many parents used to complain to the school that their children, daughters especially, had become impossible since starting high school, they didn't seem to understand the relevance of the age at which they start high school co-inciding with puberty for many.
Having taught in mixed, all girls and all boys schools, the all boys was by far the easiest for interpersonal relationships, nothing as toxic as teenaged girls!

This seems to be part and parcel of going through the teenage years for girls sadly. I think its the gentler more sensitive girls that end up on the receiving end of this treatment regularly.
My own daughter is 15. This hasnt ever been a problem for her and i put it down to her being a mouthy tough nut. She hates anyone being treated unfairly and will stick up for people if they need back up.

Mine is really struggling at the moment. She doesn't understand the nastiness from what used to be good friends. It seems to be a constant power struggle.

That’s the thing @BoringBarrington what were 5 minutes ago lovely friends are suddenly vile. Making DDs think they’ve done something dreadful when they haven’t. Knocks them for 6.

My DD has just come through all of this toxic drama, we had a lot of tears on a nightly basis.
Luckily Secondary Schools are big so she managed to find her tribe eventually through sport and mixed classes etc and and now has a lovely supportive and fun group of friends but it took a couple of difficult years to get there.