School acting unlawfully?

[emmapemma91]

My little girl started a new school Monday, she’s 6 and starting year 2. She has SEN and is waiting for assessment for possible autism.
Today she was only at school for an hour and I got a phone call saying to pick her up as they ‘can’t deal with her needs and she’s disrupting the class’.
Now she’s been put on reduced timetable, only doing mornings. Obviously I’m concerned about her mental health and how she’s coping but isn’t sending her home ‘unofficial exclusion’?. And should I call them out on this? They’ve said they’re going to need her picked up again tomorrow if she doesn’t settle. And it seems a bit extreme to put her on a reduced timetable after only 2 full days.

I will start the EHCP process soon but know the school need to use their resources to try settle her first, but it seems like they aren’t prepared.

[LolaSkoda]

Sounds like a crappy situation. Hopefully you can get a proper diagnosis and support can then properly be put in place?

Having a child screaming isn’t conducive to an effective learning environment for all the children in the class, so it is not surprising that the school took action. Seems like they’ve been heavy handed though.

[Thisismytimetoshine]

spend their funding on helping my little girl settle, and that needs to be done in order for the ehcp to be granted
That sounds most peculiar, who told you that?

[JanetandJohn500]

@ThePants999

How wonderful that *@JanetandJohn500* was able to quickly spot this and immediately provide such a helpful response. (No sarcasm here, that was genuinely great to see.)

Thanks @ThePants999 I always agonise about responding to these types of posts because although I desperately want to help, someone else always comes along and gives contrary advice!

[hiredandsqueak]

To be quite honest you would be better applying now whilst the school haven't had time to jump through hoops. Mine got theirs before attending any educational establishment and it was the best way tbh. Just be sure to appeal each time if refused around 90% of appeals are won by parents (99% in our LA) and get support from IPSEA and SOSSEN.

[emmapemma91]

@Thisismytimetoshine my child’s previous school told me they’d first need the Ed psych to complete his assessment then carry out his recommendations For at least 2 terms?

[spanieleyes]

That's with the plan/do/review process but if there are mitigating circumstances, you can apply without this. What provision was in place at her previous school? the current one can use this in their application. If the school are reluctant to apply then you do so yourself. The school has to provide exactly the same information to the panel whether the initial application comes from them or from the parent

[hiredandsqueak]

@emmapemma91 This is the timeline for the EHCP process. Local Authorities have to meet the timeline, at no point does the process state school has to follow recommendations for two months. LA's lie and mislead both schools and parents. Schools are not good sources of information regarding EHCP's and the law. You see it on here all the time SENCos of many years standing quoting false information because they are not aware of the law and their training has most likely come from the LA who quote policy instead of the law. Always check anything you are told with either IPSEA or SOSSEN.

[JanetandJohn500]

If there are behaviour issues at play we say that APDR cycle can be short as long as they're actually trying to implement things and not just pretending that they are in a half-hearted way.

[Ellie56]

my child’s previous school told me they’d first need the Ed psych to complete his assessment then carry out his recommendations For at least 2 terms?

This is not true.

If a local authority (“LA”) is requested to carry out an EHC needs assessment by a parent, young person, school or college, they must consider:

• whether the child or young person has or may have special educational needs (“SEN”); and
• whether they may need special educational provision to be made through an EHC plan.

If the answer to both of these questions is yes, they must carry out an EHC needs assessment.

This test is set out in the law (section 36(8) of the Children and Families Act 2014). This means these are the only questions the LA should be asking when considering whether or not to carry out an EHC needs assessment.


www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Your poor little girl is showing by her behaviour that her needs are not being met.

Use the IPSEA model letter and apply yourself. Tell them your child is unable to cope and is already being excluded.

If you get turned down, appeal. The vast majority of parents win Refusal to Assess appeals.

[HM1984]

I worked in a school where the head made the decision to do this to a couple of the SEN kids. I think you need to keep in mind however horrible it may be for you and your DC, if a child is continously disruptive and they need additional support that cannot be financed by the school or funded by the government, the school CAN reduce the timetable. It is not unofficial exclusion as the teacher should be giving you work to do at home on a 121 basis with your child, as they are unable to provide that level of support in school and therefore would expect you to homeschooling whilst they are not attending so they are kept up to date with the rest of the class for the days they are in school.

It isn't unlawful - the school need to have safeguarding, a duty of care and child welfare at the heart of all decisions and that includes the safety of other pupils in the class. It is not a decision that comes easy and unfortunately until you get the EHCP in place, it will most likely be on a review basis.

There is a massive backlog on EHCPs being processed due to covid. Keep on them, push the SENCo and your council. Go up the chain as far as you can and get as many people involved if you feel like you're hitting a brick wall. Trust me when I say you'll need to fight for it, I have been there personally with my own DC (her school were fantastic to be fair) but have also seen it from the school side too from my old job. If the school aren't that supportive (which TBH they don't sound like they do) they will push back. The Senco at the school I used to work in (established SENCo) made excuses like it is "too expensive " (it costs nothing but her time) and "too time consuming, I have other things to get on with in my hours". This was the SENCo, designated safeguarding contact and someone on the senior leadership team in the school I worked in! I was so shocked.Obviously they palmed off the parents with lines like "only 3 kids in the school can have an EHCP" (BS by the way its on a case by case basis and the school actually GET money to help the child, but it requires a lot of paperwork and time!) but the parents trusted her and the head. It was pure laziness on their part and they failed the children by not giving them the support they needed. I left when I realised how bad it was, I didnt want to be part of that.

Good luck, I hope you get the support you need for your DC.

[windyautumn]

@HM1984

I worked in a school where the head made the decision to do this to a couple of the SEN kids. I think you need to keep in mind however horrible it may be for you and your DC, if a child is continously disruptive and they need additional support that cannot be financed by the school or funded by the government, the school CAN reduce the timetable. It is not unofficial exclusion as the teacher should be giving you work to do at home on a 121 basis with your child, as they are unable to provide that level of support in school and therefore would expect you to homeschooling whilst they are not attending so they are kept up to date with the rest of the class for the days they are in school.

It isn't unlawful - the school need to have safeguarding, a duty of care and child welfare at the heart of all decisions and that includes the safety of other pupils in the class. It is not a decision that comes easy and unfortunately until you get the EHCP in place, it will most likely be on a review basis.

There is a massive backlog on EHCPs being processed due to covid. Keep on them, push the SENCo and your council. Go up the chain as far as you can and get as many people involved if you feel like you're hitting a brick wall. Trust me when I say you'll need to fight for it, I have been there personally with my own DC (her school were fantastic to be fair) but have also seen it from the school side too from my old job. If the school aren't that supportive (which TBH they don't sound like they do) they will push back. The Senco at the school I used to work in (established SENCo) made excuses like it is "too expensive " (it costs nothing but her time) and "too time consuming, I have other things to get on with in my hours". This was the SENCo, designated safeguarding contact and someone on the senior leadership team in the school I worked in! I was so shocked.Obviously they palmed off the parents with lines like "only 3 kids in the school can have an EHCP" (BS by the way its on a case by case basis and the school actually GET money to help the child, but it requires a lot of paperwork and time!) but the parents trusted her and the head. It was pure laziness on their part and they failed the children by not giving them the support they needed. I left when I realised how bad it was, I didnt want to be part of that.

Good luck, I hope you get the support you need for your DC.

It is unlawful. They need to formally exclude. Sending home is illegal.

[Shizzlestix]

as I’ve said it’s mainly the unofficial exclusion. I don’t want them to think they can take the piss and I’ll just sit and do nothing

Which is why @JanetandJohn500 has written what she has. The school has acted unlawfully and need to understand that the parent understands her rights and how the processes should be carried out. What if both parents worked in jobs where they couldn’t just drop everything and run to school? What would the staff have done?

[Ellie56]

HM1984

As PP said, if they need to exclude a child they have to do it formally. What your HT did was unlawful.

And parents cannot be forced to home school.

[MintyMabel]

Especially at short notice during Covid.

Kids’ disabilities haven’t disappeared just because there is Covid. Schools still have a responsibility to kids with ASN and the same legal requirement to make reasonable adjustments.

[HM1984]

No its not unlawful. It is a last resort for schools, in agreement with parents, as a temporary measure for safeguarding purposes. I know of at least 3 other schools that have done this in the area as the children were physically disruptive or would attempt to run out of the school, thus putting themselves and staff in danger. They needed constant 121 supervision which was not something any of the schools provided due to lack of funding.

If you Google this, you'll actually see guidance from different councils to schools within their area on how this is to be managed. I would suggest OP perhaps looks into the guidance for her specific area. I absolutely agree it is not fair as everyone should be entitled to a free, full-time education place regardless of ability.

If you think the school are acting discriminatively then do not agree with the reduced timetable. However the risk by doing that is exclusion.

There should be a period of readjustment due to covid-19, they aren't expecting kids to be back to normal routine until at least the October half term. The next few weeks (government guidance) is to slowly readjust to the normal timetable.

I am really sorry to hear what you're going through and I do hope it is resolved.

[HM1984]

I should also add with regards to my comments on the EHCP, I have been there with my own child (autistic and had behavioural issues when she started school). It took us about 6 months to complete the process and it did require a lot of pushing. We recently did the annual review (I say recently, it was a good 5 months ago) and I was told there is a massive delay now in anything EHCP related as teaching staff were redeployed (as were speech and language and the educational pyschologist) to help with the urgent care for key workers. However I did learn this year that something called a sensory report can be created by occupational therapy through the school nurse which could help identify triggers. I've pushed the school for this to help my daughter but you don't need an EHCP to get this and if the school agree there may be sensory issues, you can ask for them to refer your child to the service. It may help with anything going on in the classroom that may be a trigger to your DC.

Good luck OP

[Thisismytimetoshine]

@MintyMabel

Especially at short notice during Covid.

Kids’ disabilities haven’t disappeared just because there is Covid. Schools still have a responsibility to kids with ASN and the same legal requirement to make reasonable adjustments.

Surely you can see that in a time of necessary social distancing, a child unable to comply with this for whatever reason needs to be balanced against the other children's need to stay safe?
There are more pressures on schools right now to than ever before.

[HM1984]

@Ellie56 you're right, parents cannot be forced to home school. However when a child is on a reduced timetable, there is still a duty of care towards that child and they do send home work that they would have done in the classroom. It is up to the parent whether or not they choose to do that work with the child. No one is forcing anyone, but the option is there.

[Underhisi]

Part time timetables are not always unlawful but what the school has done so far is.

If a child is unofficially excluded (which is what happened because no prior agreement for a reduced timetable had been made with the parent) the parent does not have the right to challenge the exclusion which is a legal right.

It also means that the LA may not be notified of the problem which means the child's difficulties are not being recorded which will make it more difficult and take longer to get extra support.

If part time is agreed for a time limited period the school still has responsibility to provide a full time education so any work provided must be suitable and the school must check to see if it is being done and mark it.

[emmapemma91]

No work has been given, and when I took her this morning the SENco says to stay near the phone in case I need to get her. I have applied for a EHCP using IPSEA draft letter, and also asked SENco to refer her to OT for her fine motor skills and a sensory assessment, even though the SENco said she wants me to run everything by her first.
I really would like to work with the school and build a relationship with them but feel like I’m being messed around at the minute and obviously need to be my child’s advocate.

[Thisismytimetoshine]

You posted earlier that she screams and acts aggressively if anyone approaches her. It sounds very difficult, but how do you actually expect them to cope with that?

[emmapemma91]

@Thisismytimetoshine my point is more about clearing up whether the school is doing things properly and lawfully, or trying to make things easier for themself.

[Poppinjay]

Work being sent home is irrelevant would not change the fact that this is an illegal exclusion.

Reduced timetables are permitted in specific circumstances, which must include a detailed plan to reintegrate the child into school within a short period which includes addressing the reasons that the reduction is required and regular reviews. They may also only happen with the prior agreement of parents.

The moment you feel that you are being asked to collect her for the benefit of the school, rather than your DD, you need to ask them to complete the exclusion paperwork and follow due process. This then becomes evidence to support your request for an EHC Needs Assessment.

Your DD clearly meets the criteria set out for a needs assessment, as per @Ellie56's post. If the LA declines your request, you need to appeal to the SEND tribunal. It's relatively easy to do and the LA is likely to concede almost immediately.

You posted earlier that she screams and acts aggressively if anyone approaches her. It sounds very difficult, but how do you actually expect them to cope with that?

The OP should expect the school staff to support an assessment of her needs, provide evidence from their own observations and then put the support in place that will remove the need for her to express such distress in school. Sending her home illegally while taking no other action does nothing to help her.

[MintyMabel]

Surely you can see that in a time of necessary social distancing, a child unable to comply with this for whatever reason needs to be balanced against the other children's need to stay safe? hmm There are more pressures on schools right now to than ever before.

Surely you can see that using Covid as an excuse to yet again, short change kids with SEN out of education is a shitty thing to do and there would be an outcry if all kids were treated this way.

DD’s school demanded all pupils in DD’s class use a specific entrance. It has steps and she uses a walking frame. Do you really think it would be acceptable for the school to refuse to provide her with the support to access through a different door, meaning she has to cross their demarcation lines and that a support assistant has to bring her in to class? Just because “Covid”?

[MintyMabel]

It isn't unlawful - the school need to have safeguarding, a duty of care and child welfare at the heart of all decisions

And yet parents have been fined for not dragging their school refusers in. I do wonder why a school can decide not to meet their obligations for full time education but a parent can’t decide the same when it is in the best interests of their child.