School acting unlawfully?

[emmapemma91]

My little girl started a new school Monday, she’s 6 and starting year 2. She has SEN and is waiting for assessment for possible autism.
Today she was only at school for an hour and I got a phone call saying to pick her up as they ‘can’t deal with her needs and she’s disrupting the class’.
Now she’s been put on reduced timetable, only doing mornings. Obviously I’m concerned about her mental health and how she’s coping but isn’t sending her home ‘unofficial exclusion’?. And should I call them out on this? They’ve said they’re going to need her picked up again tomorrow if she doesn’t settle. And it seems a bit extreme to put her on a reduced timetable after only 2 full days.

I will start the EHCP process soon but know the school need to use their resources to try settle her first, but it seems like they aren’t prepared.

[BilberryBaggins]

It sounds very hard, and I'm really sorry she's had a difficult start to her new school.

I wonder how much of an influence Covid has had though; it's very difficult for EYFS and KS1 staff at the moment, because all the usual ways they would work with children who need more support are compromised, and it is much easier for children to cause a disruption which are not only difficult for learning, but actually cause the protocols for Covid security to be breached. I know at our school that parents have been told that children will be sent home for any breach of the rules, including minor infringements, because schools really need children to be following whatever measures have been agreed in the school risk assessment.

It sounds like the reduced timetable is a good way forward, and maybe don't worry too much about your dd's 'rights' - (I mean that really nicely!), it's a horrendous time for schools, and everyone is just doing their best to keep everyone safe!!

[MissEliza]

You said in your Op the school weren't prepared. Did you discuss ahead of time what arrangements would be in place? What arrangements did your previous school have in place?
You have to appreciate with Coronavirus procedures that schools just done have the spare capacity to deal with meltdowns etc. It's hard enough when there's an SEN child with no 1:1. It usually just means support staff are taken away from the class in general. However, now it means support staff won't be able to do tasks required to keep schools clean and safe ie cleaning classrooms at breaks or supervising hand washing.
There really should have been a meeting between you and the school before your dd started.

[windyautumn]

Yes, illegal and quite bad form actually. If they can't meet needs they need to be upfront, own it and fixed term exclude children because it's the only above board way to clearly demonstrate the need for extra provision and EHCP. Calling parents to rescue is just cowardly.

We went down that reduced timetable slippery slope. It was months of reduced timetables out of the classroom, then he was just an irritation they only thought of 1 hour a day, no education the rest of the time. Easy for the school to ignore him 'in his bests interests' and not change anything 'in his best interest' etc.

It's illegal and we went along with it because we though we had no option. Eventually we refused to send him to school and suddenly everyone was interested, EHCP was expedited, ASD assessment expedited and a year later he is thriving, full time every day in an autism school with people who actually know what they're doing.

[TempestHayes]

It depends what she's doing. Schools haven't the money or funds to be perfect in all scenarios, and if she's violent, biting, smashing furniture or the like they can't have that risk.

A kid in our class had to be removed because they were exceptionally violent and human teeth wounds can be very severe, and we can't have them lobbing chairs at others' heads and screaming the F and C words.

If she's just talking or fidgeting then yes they're unreasonable. But it really depends just how poorly she's coping.

[bumble79]

No they cannot just send her home like this but could part time provision work for you and your daughter? My son has autism and started school before he diagnosed. It was decided he only went mornings to start with. Then after Christmas he went full time. Maybe worth thinking about?? He is 9 and it didn't make any difference long time.

Sucks being sent home after an hour though.

You do have my sympathy though. The little poppet has just started a new school after months of lockdown. They can't expect miracles!! 😭

My son has had an awful first few days back at school. screaming every morning refusing to go in. Hope he settles again soon for his sake and my own sanity!

[MillieEpple]

I just wanted to stress its really important these things are recorded properly as its proper recorded keeping that will 'prove' your child needs support. We suffered from lack of records. Obviously put your childs mental health first but do push to get the support needed so she can stay.

[FatCatThinCat]

I have 2 autistic kids, although one is now an adult. My experience tells me that there is no point fighting the school to get them to work with your child. If they're not interested in her wellbeing, no amount of asserting your rights will make a difference. Better to cut you losses as quickly as possible and find a school that wants to get it right.

My biggest regret with my DD was that I wasted 5 years fighting an outstanding school to get her basic needs met. Moved her at the start of year 6 to a less popular school and they were wonderful and went out of their way to support her. At secondary she went through 4 schools before finding the right fit in number 5. They frequently got stuff very, very wrong with her but I knew they desperately wanted to get it right and worked really hard to get it right.

Thankfully DS's primary school is the right one from the start (I learnt alot first time round with DD). We're not in the UK anymore so I don't know if this is a complete no, but here, DH or I get to stay with DS at the start of the term until he's settled. This used to be for a few days but now he's so secure that it's usually only an hour or 2 now.

[Curioushorse]

Oh gosh. OP how difficult for you!

But I think calling it an illegal exclusion sounds acrimonious and confrontational immediately. Reading between the lines it sounds like she was so distressed and difficult they probably could have kept her there a bit longer and managed to get a ‘real exclusion’ based on what sounds like her disturbed behaviour.

I don’t know specifics, but OP you sound reasonable and supportive- so they may well have decided that you’d be ok with them skipping that formal stage (which would ultimately be negative for your daughter). Is that possible?

Ultimately it sounds like they’ve suggested a solution that you think is a good idea for her. Honestly, would you like her to have stayed in a situation where she was distressed and the teachers are saying they couldn’t cope?

I don’t know- but good luck OP. It sounds a very sad situation to be in.

[MillieEpple]

Curioushorse - it is an illegal exclusion though. The school needs to put the correct attendance code in the register and write a letter to make it a legal exclusion. It does no one any favours to not record it properly. Skipping the formal part can seriously impact the chances the child has of securing decent support. Then in the reintergration meeting they can look at what needs to be done and formally agree a PT timetable.
Its very hard to get support for SEN dodging the formalities isnt the way to do it.

[MissEliza]

@MillieEpple good advice.

[Sleepyblueocean]

"they may well have decided that you’d be ok with them skipping that formal stage (which would ultimately be negative for your daughter)."

What is ultimately negative for a child is to have their needs hidden because there is no formal record of them and so no evidence that extra support is needed.

I would only agree to part time as part of an agreed time limited integration plan detailing how the increase in hours is going to happen and what support will be provided by the school. Otherwise insist on exclusion paperwork. Apply for the ehcp now. Them sending her home is enough evidence to meet the legal criteria for an ehcp assessment.

[Marleymoo42]

Make sure the school are clear about why they cant manage her in full time. Schools are not functioning as they normally would with new covid rules and this is affecting infants more than other areas of school and they will most likely be sitting at desks full time in yr 2. Because of bubbles they may be really stretched with staff and it could be staffing issue. It could also be that her behaviour is making social distancing difficult.

It does sound like they are acting illegally but you need to work with them and build good relationships, especially with head and senco as this is the best way to help her going forward. I would phone head for an informal chat.

[Love51]

@Curioushorse the school should not be waiving the child's right to have things done formally. There is a process to having a child on a reduced TT, including doing it in conjunction with parents informing the local authority and reviewing frequently. Just because it is easier for the school it doesn't mean it isn't damaging for the child.
The chances of a child ending up on a reduced TT has something to do with their needs but a lot more to do with what school they attend. Sending a child home is masking their inability to manage in their school.
@emmapemma91 contact sendias. By all means agree to a reduced TT, but make sure it is recorded and that it increases week on week. They won't get a good understanding of her needs if she isn't there long enough to learn anything.

[ThisIsNotARealAvo]

The only time I've sent SEN children home is when parents refuse to admit they have needs as severe as they do. For example we have several parents who have turned down places at a special school in favour of mainstream and then wonder why we can't meet their needs. The child is then distressed and not coping in a mainstream environment even with support. The SEN funding doesn't cover 1:1 support (usually £12000 which is half of a TA) and the child can't manage.

Of course if you don't have a diagnosis yet then you won't have an EHCP or anything else so she is classed as a mainstream child to all intents and purposes and school may be struggling to meet her needs depending what they are. They may have not known what else to do. What kind of behaviour was she displaying?

[Billben]

@Thisismytimetoshine

I do feel the reduced timetable will help.

I don’t work so i don’t have that to worry about, but would like to know my rights and check they’re acting lawfully and in my child’s wellbeing

Why do you need to know "your rights" when you've admitted it's the right course of action and is likely to help?

Because the school is still acting illegally and will continue to do so unless OP puts her foot down and they can see that she is right in what she is saying.

[Gwynfluff]

Why do you need to know "your rights" when you've admitted it's the right course of action and is likely to help?

Clearly never spoken to someone with a kid needing support in primary. It needs to be correctly and following due process or otherwise it’s an arbitrary action that is unlikely to be driven by the child’s best interests.

Consecutive policy decisions have led to disabled students being included in mainstream schooling and the legislation and funding (though inadequate) is there to support that.

[emmapemma91]

Her behaviour is mainly sitting screaming and if anyone tries to go near her she will act aggressively. Also she needs to be carried into class or will run

[OverTheRainbow88]

How was she in her previous school? Do you kind me asking why she’s moved schools?

[ThePants999]

How wonderful that @JanetandJohn500 was able to quickly spot this and immediately provide such a helpful response. (No sarcasm here, that was genuinely great to see.)

[emmapemma91]

We moved area and there was no space in the current school she’s in now, so had to put her in one a bit further afield. She was only there a couple month before lockdown. A space became available during lockdown and I decided to go for it as she’d been out of school longer than what she had been in it.

[emmapemma91]

Also the school is additionally resourced and ‘prides itself on working in all areas of SEN’.

[SugarPlumFairyCakes]

Please do consider doing a parental request for an EHC Needs Assessment, whatever anyone says, the law for an assessment is 'May have SEN' and 'may need an EHC Plan'. Your LA have to make the decision within 6 weeks and when turned down, you should appeal. (considering mediation first) The vast majority of parents win the appeal and you/the LA do not attend refusal to assess appeals.
Part-time time tables are illegal, but understand why you have agreed. I would, however, insist on a fully planned implementation of no longer than 6 weeks, with the plan being written and agreed with an Educational. Psychologist. School should fund this as part of their notional SEN funding of up to £6k per child, per academic year.
Good luck hope it works out for you and your daughter., who is entitled to a full time education, the same as a child without a disability.

[hiredandsqueak]

@ThisIsNotARealAvo

The only time I've sent SEN children home is when parents refuse to admit they have needs as severe as they do. For example we have several parents who have turned down places at a special school in favour of mainstream and then wonder why we can't meet their needs. The child is then distressed and not coping in a mainstream environment even with support. The SEN funding doesn't cover 1:1 support (usually £12000 which is half of a TA) and the child can't manage.

Of course if you don't have a diagnosis yet then you won't have an EHCP or anything else so she is classed as a mainstream child to all intents and purposes and school may be struggling to meet her needs depending what they are. They may have not known what else to do. What kind of behaviour was she displaying?

Just to clear up a couple of errors. You don't need a diagnosis of anything to secure an EHCP. If an EHCP specifies full time 1 to 1 support then that is what must be provided and funding deficits are not a parent's problem. If school have agreed that they can meet the needs of a child and the provision specified in the EHCP without first ensuring that the funding is sufficient then the school have been negligent and yet again that isn't a parent's problem. If school really are having problems then they need to approach the LA, school could also advise the parent to write to the LA regarding failure to make the provision in the EHCP template letter here

[NailsNeedDoing]

Illegal it may be, but however many rights you and your daughter may have, if she is regularly screaming and aggressive and she hasn’t yet been granted a 1-1, then any normal primary school is going to struggle to cope with her. They don’t have enough staff in schools to allocate someone to be with a child 1-1 full time, no matter how much they may need it. The staff they do have are already thinly stretched and under resourced. Many classes don’t even have a full time TA, and where they do they are already needed to meet the needs to the whole class.

What can they be expected to do to keep a child safe and educated when a child’s needs are so significant that they require something that the school simply doesn’t have? Even with the best will in the world they couldn’t do it.

[emmapemma91]

The only thing putting me off applying for a EHCP is that obviously the school have not tried everything in their power or spend their funding on helping my little girl settle, and that needs to be done in order for the ehcp to be granted. As I’ve said, I have a older child who has a ehcp (no diagnosis) and the school had to jump through hoops for that.