To be cross at our practice nurse?

[clumsymum]

DS is 8, and last week we took him for his MMR vaccination (didn't have them when a toddler, history elsewhere on here).

I had told ds why we were going to the Dr's earlier in the week, and then had not really mentioned it again. In the waiting room we discussed everything else, ds was perfectly calm and happy.

I ASSUMED that when we got into the consulting room, nurse would have the syringe ready, and just GET ON WITH IT. Instead she faffed about with it, telling me about the injection, he might get a temperature etc etc.
Then she turned to ds (who had been sitting quite quietly up to now ) and said, "Right, lets give you this, it might hurt a little bit"
Cue one squirming, fighting child. He is a large 8 year-old, I'm a small mummy, and basically we finished up having to ring for Daddy to come and hold ds down, lots of tears, a complete farce.

Then she rang us to say that ds will need a booster sometime, over a month from now.
DH took the call, and she said to him "Now it will be YOU who brings ds, won't it?"
I'm really really , firstly because SHE got ds all upset, and secondly because she obviously regards me as utterly unable to deal with my own child.

But it does hurt a bit.

When ds had some travel jabs a while back, I told him it what to expect, and so did the nurse.

Better than being taken by surprise when it went in.

Harder with older children IMO. OK for little ones to be one your lap where you can hold them still when the surprise of the pain hits. But older ones need to know it's coming IMO.

what I mean is...if you had, calmly and away from teh situation mentioned that it may hurt a little he wouldn't have had such a shock and created as badly....bit simple laying all the blame at the nurse...as she did only do things by protocol....

She has to tell you again for consent reasons (you could give a patient an injection every day but you still have to ask and tell them what its for).

IMHO YABU, what did you expect her just to be stood in the corner weilding a syringe ready to jab in your ds as he walked through the door?

I have a lot of sympathy with you Clumsymum and don't think you're being unreasonable. Lots of medical practitioners don't seem to know how to give injections properly and don't seem to care about the trauma whicn can be caused to children (and parents) and the possibility of them becoming overanxious about future injections. My DS had his measles, mumps and rubella vaccinations and boosters privately, from a doctor who gives injections for a living and who had it down to a fine art. He distracted ds with a bouncing toy hung from his office ceiling when he had the first injections around 13-18 months, and when he had his pre-school boosters earlier this year, the doctor had a supply of kids books in his office. DS sat on my lap and we read the book, while the doctor prepared the injection in a side room. He then came in, got himself in position (with the needle hidden) and said "you'll probably feel a little scratch" and it was over in a second. DS hardly noticed! In contrast about two months ago ds had his other pre-school boosters at our local NHS practice, where the nurse faffed around, pretty much waved the needle around and then tried to stab it into his arm while he was looking at it. Not surprisingly he jerked away, the needle came out and I had to hold him down while she tried again. She said "silly boy, you shouldn't have moved" and when I challenged her and said he'd never had a problem with injections in the past, she conceded she shouldn't have shown him the needle and should have done the injection more quickly. Thank god he doesn't have to have another injection until he's 13, and if the private doctor who did his mmr is still around we'll go to him!

as a children's nurse we would never do something to a child that hurts without teling them that it will. This is the way children develop fears and anxieties not by being told the truth. We are always truthful and I always tell my children that something will hurt if it will. She was right to tell your child it would hurt so from that point of view yabu
but
she could have had everything ready before and she could have asked you discreetly if you were happy and about the side effects etc
as for the holding we do this sometimes but as an absolute last resort I would try distraction etc etc first the problem is your child was not prepared properly as you didn't mention it would hurt
as a very last resort sometimes we have to hold children, it is do that or no injection.
my advice would be next time prepare him well and offer a treat when it is over something that he chooses himself ike a comic

MBS, the bouncing toys were for the children having their first MMR, i.e. 13-18 months, and they were a very effective distraction. The books were for the older kids and I'm sure would work for an 8-year-old. The overall point I'm trying to make is that giving these injections well isn't rocket science, it just takes a bit of thought and consideration (on the part of the health practitioner and the parent).

Well I'm a practice nurse and I think you're being a bit unreasonable.

OK she could have handled it better and faffed less, but he's 8 for goodness sake, not 13 months. You can't pretend to an 8 year old that giving them an injection won't hurt. You can't leap around the room blowing bubbles to distract him (like we do for the 13 month olds).

She has a medico-legal obligation to get your consent and that includes ascertaining that you are there for what she thinks you are there for, informing you of exactly what she is doing, and any possible side effects. If she skips that bit she is professionally negligent. You can't just 'get on with it.'

I can understand you are upset (no-one likes pinning a child down for an injection) but you need to realise that we can't just stick needles in unsuspecting children, whatever their age.

But giving an injection like this shouldn't "hurt" anyway. Yes you feel a prickle, but one of the reasons I hadn't made a big point of discusasing it is that ds has had severasl lots of surgery, and has experience of having a canula in his hand. Now that hurts, but if the nurse is any good, a simple injection like this shouldn't be in the same magnitude at all.

I simply think that walking across the room carrying a syringe, and saying "this will hurt" is no way to approach a child. If she'd said it the second it went in, it might have been acceptable.

I'm seriously thinking of asking our GP to let a different practice nurse do it (preferably one with her own kids, you can bet this one didn't have them). If she can ask for a particular parent to be present, then I can ask for a particular practitioner to perform the procedure.

clumsymum the injections do hurt they sting when the immunisation goes in so she was right to say it would hurt maybe her manner could have been better but she was right about the hurt bit

Well yes, announcing it as you walk across the room wielding a syringe is tactless and unnecessary.

But injections can hurt, even if very well done - some of the childhood vaccines really sting, and if a child is fearful then that increases pain as well.

You can certainly ask for another nurse to do it, it will depend on the size of the practice and whether they have another nurse who has done the courses available. But no harm in asking.

erm, clumsy, I am now not speaking from the viewpoint of a health proffesssional, but from someone who has had several surgeries in her life (mostly as a child/young person, few as an adult) aswell as the usual injections/vaccinations one probably has over their life...and I ratehr have my blood taken then an injection done (subcutane or intramuscular)...because having blood taken or having a canula in place doesn't hurt as much (impo) as having an injection done...although this does depend on the substance injected....the consistency of it makes a difference, as do certian components...a injection is much more likely to sting/hurt, then the setting of a canula.