To think we arent being real with our children?

[Just01]

We are constantly teach them to believe they can be what they want,have what they want,live the life they want,all it takes is work and a positive attitude!its bullshit.life is full of failure and disappointment,dissatisfaction and probably 90%of people just struggle and get by each day.if we keep telling kids oh just try hard yoi can achieve anything we are setting them up to fail,sometimes they cant get what they want no matter how hard they try or what they do.we need to be more real with our kids and tell them it's ok,that they can try and get the lives they want but it may not happen and the emphasis in life should be about being good and happy.

Personally, I try to educate my kid about class, and how people must work five times as hard to get a shot at a top job that well connected upper class kids get handed out like candy, no matter how mediocre they are.

Why should I lie to my kid and educate him 'class blind'?

Work hard and be kind. That's what I like to focus on with my children.

I teach mine to play to their strengths and be realistic. Some can focus on school work so encourage the to be academic, some are manual based so encourage them into the trades. Find their strengths laugh with them at our weakness's :)

I tell my DC "try your best". Nobody can ever do more than that. But I also think that luck, that non-quantifiable thing that some people seem to have in spades, has something to do with how we all turn out.

I think it's important to let DCs 'see' as many different lives, careers, lifestyles as possible because that actually helps them to turn dreams into realities.
I also think a child would have to be very blessed and privileged to grow up not realising that life takes unexpected turns, that there are daily annoyances and failures, that we suffer loss and accidents and injuries that can tear asunder the best laid plans.
Perhaps I'm just unlucky but I didn't need adults to tell me life was difficult and unfair. What I needed was someone to tell me that I could be more than the narrow stereotypes associated with growing up a girl in a deprived area.

@isabellerossignol

If you work hard, you get good grades, you get a career, a good wage, a better standard of living.

That's nowhere near true. Yes, you have a much better chance of achieving those things if you get good grades and work hard but they certainly don't follow automatically.

Agreed. Plus.... Some people will never get good grades no matter how hard they work. Some people will never be able to attend higher education... For a slew of reasons.

Then add in that low wage jobs still need completed. If everyone "worked hard" and made a higher wage, who would serve McDonald's? Who would clean the toilets? Who would take out the garbage?

@deepwatersolo

Personally, I try to educate my kid about class, and how people must work five times as hard to get a shot at a top job that well connected upper class kids get handed out like candy, no matter how mediocre they are.

Why should I lie to my kid and educate him 'class blind'?

I completely agree with deepwatersolo here, I'm a child of working class first generation immigrants. I was told to work hard at school, university and work and find a secure professional career. I did that, it was good advice - and am now able to provide for 5 year old DD as a single parent., and work 4 days a week term time only.

I was never encourage to "pursue my dreams". I worked hard and was an undergraduate at an oxford college where my peers were largely old money boarding school with lots of connections. I have learnt not to compare my career with theirs, my parents couldn't arrange work experience for me at the UN, an investment bank or a broadsheet, had no connections and I have had to navigate my career alone, with no -one to advise or mentor me. I realise though my career (law) that most of my colleagues have been given a leg up - family money, free accommodation in central London to allow further study/internships/ work experience placements/ jobs through family and friends. It's not a level playing field.

I'll be giving DD the same advice I was given - work hard and school and university, find a secure income and build financial security and pursue your dreams in your spare time, a job/career is for paying your bills to allow you to live your life, not a measure of success or status. I have a lot of creative hobbies which bring me joy, I couldn't make a living from them and don't have anyone to subsidise me. A lot of what you see on Instagram about women who are running their own businesses is absolute nonsense and they are relying on their fathers or husbands to for the bills. I prefer to be independent - that's real freedom .

I agree OP.

Some people are never going to become doctors, despite how much they want to.

Most people realise where they fall academically and their capabilities, so spare themselves the disappointment of choosing a career that only the brightest in society could hope to achieve.

My kids are lucky kids.

They have the luck to have been born in the UK. They have the luck to have been born and raised during peacetime. They have the luck to have been born to relatively well educated, relatively well off parents who love them and value them as people.

We can and will provide them every support we can in their aspirations and ambitions. However, even they are not blind to the fact that no - they cannot be what they want or do what they want just by trying hard..

They know that things cost money and effort and even then - even when you put absolutely everything in, when the luck falls your way, sometimes you do not have the talent needed to get where you want to be in life. But they try, and they fail.

There is nothing wrong with failure. It simply shows you how not to do it.

I guess it all depends.

My parents were always ‘realistic’. I was discouraged from doing things I really loved as it wasn’t seen as a ‘safe option’ and as an adult I am annoyed by it. I totally wish I had pushed back more - but parents always used the “we’ve paid for all your schooling so you could have a comfortable life....” yada yada and discourages from more creative outputs that, in truth, are difficult to ‘make it’ in, despite talent.

On the other side, my husband comes from a working class family. Lots of family issues, money issues etc. But he was always brought up to follow dreams and do what he wanted to do. He’s got his own business doing what he loves and is talented in, never let doubts set him back etc and made a success of it.

I think that’s the way to do it. We want the best for our children, but actually letting them follow their own dreams and believe they can do what they want to do will - in most cases - make them truly happier in the long run. And a positive mindset never hurt anyone.

I see where you are at ,but feel thats a slightly negative attitude TBH! My own DS is from an average family ,and has acheived a degree in Physics .He now earns a very good wage ,has travelled and achieved a great deal .If everyone has an attitude like yours they wont get far! I have A levels and a good career ,which I gave up to be a SAHM .No regrets as this has enabled me to be at home with dogs /cats as well.Been To USA and Europe lots of hols on our dear old Sceptered Isle!Just letting them be the best they can and thats fine .Not everyone is cut out for an Academic life ,but should not be left on the scrapheap either!

There's a balance to be had surely?
Aspirational but with some realism.

That's our job as parents.

@totallyinapproppriate

My son's school is worse than that. They taught him that ' If you can dream it, you can do it', which has to be some of the worst advice ever.

Oh God! Totally agree re bad advice....🤣

@Brieminewine

Well if that’s your attitude then of course you’ll never achieve much. If you work hard, you get good grades, you get a career, a good wage, a better standard of living. If people are happy to just coast along never really excel or commit to anything and get any low skilled job that’s fine, but you’ve got to work hard to get the better things in life.

That is not true though. I got good grades (at a grammar school, so more than good compared to most schools), and have worked hard in various ways (mostly volunteering), but I am also a member of multiple social minority groups and have multiple and significant systemic barriers to overcome. I am not employable; not because I am a bad employee, but because society is set up for people who are not like me.

This comic is just an example of class privilege, imagine what it's like when there are multiple issues making each other worse:

www.boredpanda.com/privilege-explanation-comic-strip-on-a-plate-toby-morris/

Resilience is what we need to teach our kids.

My parents were from very wc backgrounds but were the first in their generation to reach higher education. They had the attitude that a degree was the passport to a better life, which, in my parents' case, was absolutely the truth.

However, having successful parents came with their own pressures. I was a relatively bright child and they had very high hopes for me but I looked as if I'd do better than I did as I was in a rough, sink comprehensive.

Unfortunately, after leaving the education system, I absolutely crumbled. I was a cripplingly shy young person who could pass exams but didn't know how to get ahead, as it were. My mental health suffered a lot when I was young and, to an extent, it impacts on my feelings of self worth a lot as an adult. I am in a low wage job because I honestly don't think I have the right personality for a high powered job.

My son is showing signs of being bright but, like me, he doesn't do pressure. I'm not sure how to handle him, really. I definitely don't want him to coast like me and I don't want to pressure him either because I can see how it backfires.

A lot of it is down to luck.

Like for example I got with a lovely guy, highly ambitious, educated, was chosen out of hundreds for job roles, sent all over the world to train other people. Given holidays in 5* hotels as "bonuses".

Behind closed doors, after giving birth to his two sons he turned out to be controlling, abusive, moody, SO SECRETIVE, and wanted all his old freedom (and his younger, childless ex girlfriend) back. Which he went and got. He left me devastated and depressed. I was supposed to pull myself out of it, brush myself down and move on. Be this big powerful single parent figure that you hear about on here... do everything, run the house, full time job, raise my kids, cook... but after years of abuse I just had nothing left. I felt rotten inside and out.

My eldest who is 8 is suffering the effects of all this. He is terrified of the world. He gets barely any enjoyment out of life. He remembers it all. The way ex spoke to me, the breakdown I had which went on and on. Youngest doesn't remember any of it and was only a baby when I started out on my own and eventually sorted myself out, got into a healthy routine, and drew up a new future for us all. I was so much happier by the time youngest turned 3. He's about to turn 4 and just bursting with happiness. Nursery ADORE him he is so quirky and confident. He's very lucky he was too young to witness what went on with him and his dad and my subsequent breakdown.

Who knows what is around the corner for us now I've looked into dating again? Another abusive relationship? or a genuinely, lovely affectionate man?

All I know is, after having an attitude like yours for the last god knows how many years is that the dark cloud around you just thickens and it's harder to find your way out. Think of things you've always wanted to do and start planning how you can achieve them. Start now.

gandalf456

I would encourage sports and as many outside clubs as possible.
Martial arts, drama are really good to boost confidence when you have the right club, but there are many options that can be more suitable.

You can't go through life without handling some kind of pressure, so encouraging your kid is vital.

It's hard but it's all about balance. Be aspirational and work hard, but be prepared to have a plan b (and c, and maybe d) in case things don't work out how you originally planned. I hope I get it right with my children.

I'm definitely including the message that they shouldn't forget to have some fun on the way, find out about things they really enjoy even if they're not going to contribute to career or earning power.

Like other pp on this thread i had a very a academic background. My parents were obsessed with school grades and achievements. It was as if nothing else mattered. I was expected to work at it all the time even in the school holidays. I was strongly discouraged from going out with friends and definitely from having boyfriends. When I eventually saw the Disney film Tangled as an adult when Rapunzel is singing that song "when will my life begin?" I laughed my head off because that's how I felt in my teens.

I went to an all girls grammar and were were all expected to go to uni. We were told to do our best subject. It was strongly inferred that employers would fall over themselves to offer us jobs if we had a 2.1 to flash at them.

Well that was all bollocks. It was such a rude awakening! I worked in a pub for nearly a year then ended up earning a salary and doing a job (assistant in a small publishing firm - mostly admin) that I could have left school at 16 and done. My degree (English) was bloody useless.

I had to work out another path which involved doing a law diploma and lpc whilst working full time (took 4 years and a shit ton of debt) and eventually became a solicitor. I did feel really cheated that I'd effectively had to start again, though pleased I got there in the end (I'm in my 40s and a partner in a city firm).

Education is important but dreams are too - even if they have to be managed work a good dose of common sense.

I think the problem is that so many people want to be extraordinary, no one wants to be
‘ordinary’
The reality is that most people have normal jobs and lead a normal life irrespective of their education.
I remember when the Friends reunited forum was the thing. I reunited with friends from my secondary school, college and university.
What I discovered that most people were living ‘unremarkable’ lives . This rang true whether they had first class degrees or just managed to scrape a few GCSES.
I have taught my children that education is brilliant because it gives you more options, but that it is not the be all and end all.

My most important "success" goal for my children is that they are happy. Not the "high five I'm so great" kind of happy that is problematic but have a balanced life with fulfilment where they choose to find it (in work or outside of it) and support when times are tough (a family/friends they can depend on) .

I tell my son (10 years) that I will be equally proud of him whatever he does for a living whether that is (insert low pay / low status job of choice) or a doctor/lawyer/top musician etc. But I do tell him that it will be easier for him to run a home and have a family with a good work life balance if he earns OK.

He is good at music and I encourage him telling him if you practice hard/get your grades etc then you will have the choice to be a music teacher. You might decide not to be but having the ability and qualifications opens up that choice. Getting the best grades you can at school gives you more choice of career paths even if it turns out you didn't need all those grades in the end.

My mum worked very hard her whole working life in teaching - all day from early to late and often at weekends and in holidays. I admire her dedication and we as a family benefitted hugely from her hard work financially but I wanted to make a different choice for myself and my family. So we have less money but I can usually always make it to school plays/reading mornings/sports days etc for my kids and that is my happy balance.

You usually have to make a choice between having money and having time and as long as my children are trying to support themselves then I will support the choices they make and their idea of a successful life.

a PhD is the absolute minimum required, and alongside that you will need high-quality research publications, teaching experience
And what if nobody will hire you as a post-doc because you’re autistic and they don’t want you as their colleague? Someone who comes across as “weird” isn’t going to get picked even if they’re the best candidate.

@areyoubeingserviced
I think the problem is that so many people want to be extraordinary, no one wants to be
‘ordinary’
Have you read the book too? The subtle art of not giving a fuck? He talks about this in one of the chapters. It's quiet eye opening about why people go to extremes

sometimes they cant get what they want no matter how hard they try or what they do.

Of course that's true

And how the person handles that disappointment and unhappiness can create a whole new life for them.

So anything, perceived with a positive mind, can bring positivity and happiness - and learning to live this way (most of the time) will create a wonderful life