To hate how women speak tentatively

[amillionnamechangeslater000]

I’ve noticed it on podcasts, Radio 4 and in real life. It seems like everyone has started to add a high intonation when they speak - so a statement sounds like a question.


So Aibu to hate this style of speaking?

[BlackCatsRule88]

@Hangingover

I used to encourage my (brilliant) assistant to go through her emails before sending and delete all the softening phrases ('sorry to bother you again...', 'sorry if I'm missing something but...', 'can you spare a moment to...', 'does that make sense?' etc.) Then we'd read them back together and smugly press send

I have noticed how often I do this in emails. I work in a male-dominated industry and am training myself to remove the apologies etc. It’s not easy and I wish I had someone like you to look over my shoulder!

[ArriettyJones]

I hate it, but it’s not surprising. I’ve had quite a lot of pushback over the years for not sounding wavering and uncertain. In fact, I’ve often been told that - in written form - I sound like a man.

It’s a form of bullying; Punishment for not sounding sufficiently hesitant and I quite understand why women subconsciously conform rather than put themselves in the firing line.

[Piglet89]

Upspeaking has been talked about for literally decades.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2001/sep/21/referenceandlanguages.mattseaton

[topcat2014]

I have always eencouraged my (female) staff to not apologise.

Unless of course it is a genuine mistake that we each individually are capable of.

One seems to start all phone calls with sorry!

[SapphosRock]

Interesting thread, I read about this in a book and have made a conscious effort to change my language at work. Some examples:

'Perhaps we should try this approach?'

To 'I think we should try this approach'

'It may be a good idea so stop using this product?'

'I don't think we should keep using this product'

'Shall we break for lunch?'

'Let's break for lunch'

Etc.

I definitely think it gives the speaker more authority and respect, particularly women.

[AttackoftheVapours]

I used to catch myself doing this in certain situations and hated it so I now make a conscience effort to stop. The world has not stopped turning just because I sound more sure of myself and less apologetic.

Also, that thing with difficult emails, I re-read them and take out the softening (waffly) phrases. You don’t see so much apologist language in men’s’ emails or speech.

[pictish]

Plenty of men talk tentatively with a questioning inflection...plenty!

[ChewtonRoad]

YADNBU, it's a horrible way to speak. There are also some women who tend to slow their speech and structure sentences as if they're talking (apologies, but I can't think of a better way to put it) to slightly backward children when they speak to groups.

This was common in a former workplace with trainers who'd come in from outside the company to tell us all about how to do better at work. I'd want to poke my eyes out or suggest the speaker fucked right off after five minutes of "OK. Here's what. We're going to do. About the new system" Just awful.

[SwanneeKazoo]

It's not just the upward inflection though, it's that awful creaky door way of speaking that a lot of young women (and also some men) use - someone upthread mentioned it as vocal fry (didn't know what it was called before). Drives me nuts.

[Aloadofbolony]

Yes. I too have noticed this. Although I don't speak British English and don't tend to do this.

British women also tend to infantalize themselves for whatever reason.

[Love51]

Before remote working I read a thread on here about just this. I had a colleague who wanted to make her emails more assertive and I helped her put a much stronger expectation of action on the recipient, and stop apologising for asking them to do something they should already have done! It is possible less annoying in emails because emails are for a smaller audience than a radio interview.

[FreakStar]

I think this is just a fashion. I think it's part of the accent in some parts of America and Australia and through TV/Youtube it has permeated into the way younger people speak in general. I don't hear older people speaking this way. I don't think it's limited to women either, young men speak this way too.

[montyliesandmontycries]

Can we leave women alone, please? Now we don't speak 'properly'?
You sound like my old boss who only listened to the empty vessels who shouted the loudest in meetings ( the men) and who threw around opinions as if they were facts ( the men) and 'hated' the way women didn't 'speak up' or loudly enough.

[Neap]

My experience resembles yours @ArriettyJones. A male teacher once described me as ‘aggressive’ purely because I wasn’t a tentative speaker who hedged my utterances around with qualifications or use unassertive ‘feminine’ speech forms.

[Neap]

He had very fixed ideas about how ‘nice girls’ behaved — deferential, unchallenging, apologetic for occupying conversational space.

[KizzyWayfarer]

Alternative viewpoint from Debbie Cameron who has written extensively on how we should stop policing the way women speak and write:
debuk.wordpress.com/2015/07/05/just-dont-do-it/
debuk.wordpress.com/2015/07/26/a-response-to-naomi-wolf/
debuk.wordpress.com/2015/12/30/crap-apps-and-female-email/
debuk.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/getting-real-about-bad-advice/

[Bluemoooon]

DS worked in Australia in the 2000s and included in an introductory talk about the country was the 'tall poppy syndrome' culture there. So you mustn't get above yourself. Maybe it developed due to that.
Another speech thing is the dropped creaky drawl which I think is to imply careful measuring of words before speaking. Mainly US women. They mentioned it on Radio 4 and I notice it quite often now.

And lastly is the speak really fast, words tripping over each other and other speakers tripping over each other to join in. I think it is to imply youre really go ahead and fast working and thinking. Imv Tony Blair started doing it - to get down with the people rather than use clear, taught at private school public speaking.
The words measured tones are never heard nowadays. Now I'm older I cannot process the fast speak (probably couldn't when I was younger) so miss some points, some MPs do it - I miss Ken Clarke's slow speech and people like him, giving you time to decide whether you agree with what they are saying rather than bombarding you with ??facts like many do now.

[longearedbat]

This is really interesting. I have never spoken in this way, but throughout my long working life (I am retired now) I was often described as being 'very assertive' simply because I have always said what I mean and try not to waffle. I remember being criticised at an annual review (by a male in a male dominated job) for being 'strident', when I was only behaving in a similar way vocally to my male co-workers. It made me feel like I was some kind of battleaxe, whereas if I had been male I would have been a 'go-getter'.

[Hingeandbracket]

it's actually quite sweet and much more engaging for the listener
No it fucking isn't.

[Hingeandbracket]

Another speech thing is the dropped creaky drawl which I think is to imply careful measuring of words before speaking. Mainly US women.
Vocal fry - horrible, and becoming more popular.

[ArriettyJones]

I think that sums it up @longearedbat

“Women, know your place!”

[KizzyWayfarer]

I think it all comes down to old fashioned sexism. In the same way that women are blamed for not being pushy in asking for a higher salary, but if they do they are much more likely than men to be viewed negatively for doing so.
And if men and women have different ways of doing things the male one is automatically assumed to be the right one.
I recommend the blog I posted above - very interesting feminist analysis of how we think about language and communication.

[notalwaysalondoner]

I agree, my pet hate is people apologising when they are public speaking, although this applies to men and women. It just undermines them so much and often what they’re apologising for wouldn’t be noticed by the audience anyway or they’d rather not have it emphasised (eg “sorry I haven’t prepared much, i didn’t have much time...” Well, good to know this audience is such a priority for you....)

On the question inflection I actually notice it way more in emails, women using the word “sorry” a lot more, apologising for inconveniencing others, using smiley faces... I try and remove anything like that from my own emails. In speech I don’t notice it so much but that’s maybe because I work somewhere where women are expected to present to clients from day one as a new graduate and there isn’t much patience with nervousness around public speaking so they are probably trained to sound authoritative very early on. I think it’s much harder in industries where you rarely present or speak up in meetings until management level, as then it becomes a big deal and so a woman’s nerves or need to appease others may come across more in her tone.

[DancyNancy]

I know right?

[Pikachubaby]

I noticed this in young American women on TV/YouTube years ago

Now it has come here

I work in software, and a male colleague and I used to sometimes send/write things from each other’s e-mail address/slack channel. Sometimes we’d forget to say “this is so and so and x’s channel”. I have had complaints from 2 Senior people about messages not being deferential enough (those were the ones sent by my male colleague from my channel)

Boring stuff like “we are moving x across to server b this evening at 6” or “branch 241 needs to be pulled now for big fixes to be visible on the live site”

From a man these messages were fine. Coming from me, they were not respectful enough apparently

A female director complained that I was “treating her as an equal” by not saying “ if it is ok, and with your permission, we’d like to pull branch 241 ASAP please” she specified my messages were not deferential enough.

Male colleague... no bother

Sexism is bloody everywhere and even internalised by some women