..to think that state educated kids are going to find themselves at a huge disadvantage in public exams?

[SpiderPlantSally]

Every privately-educated Year 10 or Year 12 child I know - this amounts to six different fee-paying schools - is having a like-for-like learning experience at home with live online teaching, following their usual timetable.

Every state-educated child I know of the same ages (also five or six different schools) is being set written work, with very little or no live teaching. At DD's school there one hour of live Maths for the whole Year 10 cohort each week, and a contact session for the other subjects once per week, when the teachers are available for email contact or chat. That's it. Otherwise lone book work.

AIBU unreasonable to think that state school pupils will be at a huge disadvantage when applying for selective 6th forms and universities in the autumn? Surely the private school pupils will absolutely clean up on the top grades in next summer's GCSEs and A-levels?

[FrippEnos]

Iwalkinmyclothing

Its not "bloody stupid" to state a fact that some people will always be unhappy with what they are provided with.

but others have genuine concerns and shouldn't be dismissed as perpetual complainers.

I didn't dismiss them.

[Iwalkinmyclothing]

Ah well, we will have to continue to disagree- but to me answering the question "Then why are so many state and some private school parents unhappy?" with "Because some people will always be unhappy about what they are provided with" is dismissive. Unless I missed the part of your post where you acknowledged that some people will be unhappy for genuine reasons?

[FrippEnos]

Iwalkinmyclothing

You are certainly missing the word some.
Or at very least putting your own spin on it.

[BeltaneBride]

I am definitely giving more feedback at the moment rather than less or none. The children submit work online and, probably because they have fewer distractions, they are doing more work and there are no excuses such as It left my book at home'. I think parents are also having greater visibility and insisting on work being completed. I have just finished marking the last assignment my Y8s submitted before half term and am impressed with the progress.
As an indie we break up on 1July, so we now have the stability of a system that is working to see us thru the last 4.5 weeks of term.
Yes the unions should be listening and learning instead of politicking.

[Tomorrowillbeachicken]

Also varies in councils between schools in rich and poor areas too

[thecatfromjapan]

State schools can listen and learn - and do, actually. State schools are brilliant innovators and their teachers are fantastically adaptable and resilient.

But all the listening and learning in the world isn't going to change the brute fact of inequality outside the school.

And Coronavirus has made that inequality a real mountain to climb.

And it could be made less of a problem with actual, real government intervention.

Teachers can't magic up IT in the home of their students - though, goodness knows, a lot are trying to do just that, or create innovative solutions to deal with the fact.

The desire to blame schools and teachers for inequality is ... baffling.

What nonsense.

Why would anyone pursue such a deeply illogical response?

[whoosit]

We are getting live online lessons following a timetable from 10-3 every day so 4 lessons with a break for lunch. Judging by the communication from school not all are engaging despite being given laptops. State school in england. The teachers seem to be doing a good job of providing work, live lessons and feedback but some are not following it which is a shame, although it is so difficult to get a teenager to follow a timetable at home when I'm working too!

[lakeswimmer]

I'm appalled by the differences between schools and I've already ranted about this on a couple of other threads! DD yr10 has struggled with the inadequate support from her state school. She's predicted grade 4s in most of her GCSEs and so if she starts to slip behind there's real possibility she'll fail the lot.

The school haven't engaged with the parents effectively and all the work they're sending out is online anyway (email or google classroom) and so, in my view, if students don't have internet access they will struggle to access any work at all so the school may as well do live lessons for those that can.

I'm also sick of people posting about what a great opportunity this is for young people to develop their independent learning skills. Around 50% of school leavers don't go to uni - they will go into work/apprenticeship/vocational training - they don't need independent study skills ffs they just need a few GCSEs so they don't leave school in the worst recession for decades with no qualifications.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

if students don't have internet access they will struggle to access any work at all so the school may as well do live lessons for those that can

I can't speak for other schools but a significant number of our kids are sharing devices so live doesn't work, but online does.

Some are also young carers (an average of 2 in every classroom) so again, they can access it, but not on a timetable. Think of all the threads saying how impossible it is to wfh and homeschool/look after younger children. Now imagine you're 14/15 and trying to do that.

[lakeswimmer]

@Beawillalwaysbetopdog - I agree it's an impossible situation for the most vulnerable students - schools really need to go back as soon as they can in my view.

[FrippEnos]

lakeswimmer

When this all started one of the things that we (teachers,TAs, support staff etc.) were as too look for in our school was struggling and vulnerable pupils, and send a list in.

We had hoped that these would be to first pupils back in through our doors.

Unfortunately the government has not allowed us to do this.

It is a messed up situation.

[CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate]

The desire to blame schools and teachers for inequality is ... baffling

It's baffling that you seem to believe it's ok to praise teachers and schools when things are going well, but somehow not ok when the provision on offer is subpar and/or non-existent.

[CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate]

*not ok to blame them

[pourmeanotherglass]

I'm not worried about my state educated yr 12 DD. She is being set work for each of the lessons she would have had, and she is keeping up with it. I'm not sure of the advantage of zoom lessons, i dont think i would want her to stare at a screen all day. DD seems happy working at her own pace. By year 12 they should be capable of independent study and managing their own time. Teachers are happy to support by email if needed.

[FrippEnos]

CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate

but somehow not ok when the provision on offer is subpar and/or non-existent

Yet no-one has said that at all.

In fact it has been said many times over the past 6 some weeks that if people want to complain about their children's schools or the education system as a whole then fine.

Just don't generalise about schools or teachers as a whole group.

[ITonyah]

By year 12 they should be capable of independent study and managing their own time

Partially.

[PickUpAPickUpAPenguin]

By year 12 they should be capable of independent study and managing their own time

My y12 does biology and we don't have a lab where she can do the practicals

[fatoprofugus]

I do think that there are huge disparities between schools, but I don't necessarily think that live teaching is the magic bullet DS's (private) secondary has been doing a great job, but far from all the lessons are live. There's been a real mix - some full live lessons, some pre recorded video lessons, some 'presentation' lessons with a PowerPoint or similar plus teacher voice over, some offline set tasks with a teacher available if you need to ask questions, and then quite a lot of good old 'here's the task, do the work in your book' lessons. I think what's really making the difference is the schedule and structure, and the incredible level of input from the staff. All of which is of course made far easier by it being an independent school - few tech issues for staff or parents (though not none), generally motivated kids and supportive parents without too many social pressures, and staff who are motivated not only by their desire to do their best for the kids but also presumably by the desire to still have a school to teach in come next year. My point though is that this disparity between schools seems to have got translated into a cry of 'we need more Zoom lessons' from parents - whereas I really don't think that's the main reason for the differences. I'm pretty sure that DS's school would still have found ways to do a fantastic job even if there were no video teaching at all. In fact, at primary level, I've got friends with kids in private preps who say that the live teaching really isn't working very well at all - it's like herding cats, just like it would be in a state primary, and the parents are longing for more book-based work - they feel the school is providing the live teaching mainly as an easy way of demonstrating their difference from the state sector.

Also, an aside about tech barriers. There's a lot of talk about lack of phones and laptops, but my friend who teaches at a state academy says the main problem at their school isn't devices, it's that a lot of their families don't have broadband. They rely either on public places like libraries (now shut) or they just use mobile data which is expensive and constantly running out, so they wouldn't be able to manage video learning etc.

[Crosswordocelot]

I have noticed similar to OP (but obviously a very small sample of schools) 4 or 5 private schools where I know either teachers or pupils there are doing live lessons via zoom etc and full timetable. DD is getting work set online but not always marked, some teachers are accessible by email, others arent, had no live lessons at all and this is the same with at least 4 other local state schools.

[Crosswordocelot]

A friend is a teacher at a private school and she says a lit of the kids arent paying attention, lots turn video off, some are chatting to someone else in the house and she says its difficult to engage when you cant see everyone. I dont think live zoom automatically means better grades although the advantage is you can ask the teacher a question if you are unsure about something, and get a more immediate response

[Phineyj]

The above has certainly been my experience of trying to get a 7 year old to engage with online lessons. What has worked is one-to-ones with the teacher or the TAs. She'll work a lot harder if they ask her to directly than if we do.

[Phineyj]

They are also using Seesaw, which is an online learning journal. That's been good as you can easily photograph and upload any work done or record an audio comment. If you have a bad day then at least you can look at what the child's done over the whole week.

[pourmeanotherglass]

My y12 does biology and we don't have a lab where she can do the practicals

But this is going to be a problems for all the private schools too. More so for subjects like drama and textiles. It may be that some subjects will need to make adjustments to coursework if schools can't open in September. DD is doing geography, so would have done fieldwork this term, but her teachers brought forward one of the year 13 topics instead. There may be opportunity to do field work next year.

I guess what I was trying to say is that I don't think zoom lessons are necessarily better than other forms of support, especially for year 12 who are only studying subjects they have chosen. I think my DDs state school have given her good support so far. Some recorded lessons and PowerPoint, some exercises etc. The teachers are marking the work they set as homework (essays etc) but not the work they set as classwork.
I'm more worried about my year 11 DD2 who has done nothing since March, and who won't have had any experience of external exams before A levels..The lack of schoolwork to give some focus has made lockdown hard for this group.

[FrippEnos]

pourmeanotherglass

AQA and OCR are releasing their coursework for all subjects at GCSE, A level etc. on the first. their statement says that the contexts have taken in the an allowance that students will be able to complete work at home.

WJEC is the only board that I know of that is not releasing its NEA at the usual time Educas has been very quiet.

[ITonyah]

We don't have Zoom lessons.