To wonder why my garden is more risky than a park bench?

[Iamnotusuallyconfused]

I’m confused about the rules - I’ll admit that and I know it’s boring constantly hearing ‘can I do this’ But I’m confused.

So under the new rules, I can meet my mum in a park and sit on a park bench 2m from her - and probably loads of other strangers.

But I’ve been informed I cannot have her sit in my back garden or drive way 2m away?

AIBU to think my garden is not more risky than a park and do it anyway?

And her and my dad live together, why can I not see them together? If she has it, so does he? Is it breaking the rules if he sits in the car while I walk with her and then they switch? What is this madness?

I think it's because everyone in government has different ideas and the resulting directions are like the 'swing designed by a committee'. IE none of it workable

The health side and the economic side are fundamentally opposed.

Economics says we have to get people back to work. Health vetoes most of their suggestions so left with stay at home - unless you have to go to work, Don't use public transport - unless you have to. etc etc

Health is saying - mental health is important, we need to see people. Economics come back with - if people start socialising then the rate will go up and we can't get back to work so people can't mix. So the stupid compromise is 'one person in a public place'

All the options as variable in the cartoon

I simply don't understand why people don't get this. Start "allowing" or endorsing people getting together in their gardens and it will be parties and bbqs galore. There has to be a blanket rule because of the idiots. Meet one person outside to exercise or catch. Do t start having one (then three) round your house for a garden Bbq.

It's really not rocket science and I think people must be being deliberately thick.

I'm not really sure you could describe the current guidance as draconian.

Well neither would I but the "I dont see why I cant do what I want and to hell with everyone else" crowd, do.

Because

1. The law currently says no social gatherings of more than two people who are not from the same household. That’s why the two Raab mentioned in his interview was changed to one
2. Because they will be touching your gate, bench etc
3. Because they may stay a while, then need to use the loo
4. Because they may get upset and you want to hug them, why not it’s your garden, no one will see, unlike in a park

5Because they say, oh let’s just have a quick cuppa, no one will know

1. Because if you do it, everyone will, and then the R rate goes up and we all go back into lockdown because people can’t follow the rules

I don’t get why people don’t get this, my own family included. We all have a responsibility to follow the rules so everyone can get out of this lockdown

I think people must be being deliberately thick.

That was my point earlier, wilful stupidity. "Oh I didnt understand...." and if the guidelines said you can see your own family in their garden then yes, they would conveniently translate that to "lets have a family party". So the guidelines have to make sure that they cannot be deliberately misunderstood that way.

Iamnotusuallyconfused just meet them where you like. There's no downside to infecting your mum right?

If it does happen you can blame the government for not explaining to you properly.

Awwlookatmybabyspider You completely misunderstood. it's not that "being on a bus tube full of possibly infected people is harmless" it's that we need you to take THAT risk to keep the country running and we'll take the chance that it might kill you.

There is no upside to risking yourself or your family just because you are bored so that risk is NOT worth it.

Lots of irrationality in the rules. You can sit two metres away from strangers in a park, but you can't sit two metres away from your parents. However, you can see your parents if you employ them as your cleaners or nannies. You can work all day with several colleagues, but you can't meet two of them after work. If you're having a raging affair with a colleague, you can shag all day in the stationery cupboard but have to stay apart as soon as you finish work.

The thinking behind this has been explained and does make sense.

They know human behaviour. They know the chances of you seeing family for the first time in 8 or more weeks and being able to stay two metres away the whole time and not have a "quick" hug or kiss are slim. Meeting in public and only meeting one person at least makes it more likely social distancing will be followed the whole time.

The reason a cleaner is allowed in your house but a family member isn't, is because you will happily not go near your cleaner and emotions won't take over. It's transactional - they come in to your house to do a job then leave.

Obviously the rules aren't perfect, they can never make a simple rule that works for every eventuality and people will make their own decisions on what they want to do, but I don't think they are completely bonkers in what they are suggesting.

I haven't seen my family yet as I know I wouldn't be able to keep my distance and not want to hug them. In public I would have more chance but if they came to the garden social distancing would be broken by someone at some point for sure.

LastTrainEast has it spot on, it's not that it's magically less risky to see people at work. We have to work, we don't have to see people socially, so the way to reduce risk is to not do the things that we don't have to.

Because they don't want to encourage people to socialise at home. If you've got people/person in your garden then it would be easier to slightly break the rules. It's easier to police out and about and keeping to one person etc

It truly is a madhouse on here at times.

I went down to a friends today.
I entered the garden via a side gate.
Before my arrival she had used a bleach spray on the table and chairs.
We sat at the ends of a 6 foot table.
We each had our own bottles of hand sanitiser, which we used liberally throughout the meeting.
We had coffee, wine and individually wrapped cake.
The cups and glasses were washed in hot soapy water before and after use.
When I left the table and chair was sprayed with bleach again.
I sanitised my hands on leaving, and washed them with soap on getting home.

I might be post menopausal, but my bladder can still manage an hour and a half.

Just what was the risk?

Met my dad in a park today - within An hour he was breaking social distancing with my 3 year old and SHE reminded him of the germs.

If we met up in gardens I think the familiarisation for my children would mean they wouldn’t be on guard, which in itself is an emotional thought.

I have a very large garden. I've never had a barbeque or party in my garden, apart from when I used it to give my sister an outdoor reception after her wedding in 2006. I accept that others may have "parties and bbqs galore", but they won't be doing it here. The sole creatures that will carry on using the garden are the fox, the dog, my husband, and me.

I'd love to believe that I can start galivanting about the place, but I don't think it's going to happen.

In my opinion if you visit a relative and sit two meters apart in the garden, take your own drink and enter and leave by an outside path and don't go in the house even for the loo this is less risky than meeting at a park.

The key is to not let them inside the house. No reason you can’t sit in your own garden to visit.

@MasakaBuzz

Unfortunately the government has to include covidiots in the rationale and there are a lot of them . Our neighbours had friends round and they did none if the things you describe .

I don’t find it hard to understand why they have decided on the rules because I have looked at the science . Other people just want to be bloody minded .

@JudyCoolibar

Do you chat and stay in the same room as your cleaner ?

Very odd .

Then crack on employing your mother then. Hope she is not in the vulnerable group.

@jasjas1973

Why don’t people understand that economics and health are linked.

If we don’t allow businesses to open that can , then you and everyone else will soon be redundant and homeless and complaining about your mental health .

Honestly I just think people are being deliberately thick about this whole thing .

Honestly, I feel that people are purposefully being blinkered to the whole idea of why these rules exist, and finding issues where there aren't any.

If the government said that you can meet people in your garden, then people will push the boundaries: some gardens you need to walk through the house to get to; you would be offered tea, share condiments, cutlery, a pack of biscuits etc; you'd use the toilet. It starts raining and you end up inside on the sofas (I think the unusual good weather for a long period has made us forget that it often rains in May!)

In a public park you have peer pressure, so are much less likely to hug, kiss, keep less than 2m.

The government expect people to push the boundaries, so when they say meet one person, they expect people to actually meet mum and dad, or sister and brother-in-law. If they said you can meet 2 people, people would push it to meet wider family: parents plus brother and nephew. If they said 4 people can meet in a park, people would push it to 6 or 8 people.

For the ridiculous people saying 'I can arrange a viewing if selling my house so I'll arrange for my parents to view my house'. Are you going to hug the house viewers? Will they use your toilet, taps, fridge? Will they stay for a few hours? Will they want to interact with our children? Will they use your cups for a drink?

For what it's worth, I have never voted Conservative, I think there are so many ways that this government have handled this terribly, and I don't trust politicians to do anything in my best interest. But what I do agree with is that they can't tell us it's ok to meet more family members in our garden because people will take that as a free pass to have a party.

YOU might meet in a garden that is accessible from the road, not touch anything and not use the toilet (If so, crack on- you are using common sense). But if MN has taught you nothing else - there are a HUGE number of idiots out there. Read the CF threads, the 'Who's worked in retail?' threads, the threads from anyone who has worked with 'the pubic'. Using the toilet at your parents, accepting a cup of tea from a neighbour, hugging your family, may all be tiny things with minimal risk- but if the government say ok to this, then it all adds up to transmission.

Half the public are saying 'lock us down further' and half are saying 'let us out to hug our famlies'. The advuse wehave is actually a middle ground.

I haven't seen another adult I know except dh in 8 weeks now.

I bet my sister is happily meeting up with her friends for outside walks and having a great time. Meanwhile I am behaving and feeling total shit. My five year dd is reverting to a clingy baby stage every day that passes and feel totally suffocated in my house and with her added clingyness.

I am going to drive over to mates and walk round the side of her house. Because if my life goes on like this I'm going to loose my mind.

I can take my own drink, sit 2 metres apart and be trusted to act like a idiot. When I can see my mum again is another story. She is too far not to have to go into her house.

It’s either a full papers and police check lockdown or mildly enforceable rules.
Clearly there are bits where the guidance isn’t consistent. But obviously must people gave git the gist that the few social contacts the safer we are.
I know the drama of the police checking people as they walk around sounds great but the reality is that’s a huge amount of money thrown at this for negligible gain.

Meeting your self uploading mum in her garden when you’ve hardly been out, or both of you meeting in the garden when you’ve both been out shopping everyday are completely different.

self isolating not uploading !

Please don't make a grand gesture of standing to the side for me on the pavement though it makes you look like a passive aggressive tit. Especially when I'm jogging up bank and then feel obliged to hurry up. I don't care if you move or not.

Not overly paranoid but will most definitely move out of the way of anyone with this attitude.

The rules are written as they are, because they have written them with people who didn't even buy soap before 2020 in mind, and have zero idea of how to avoid passing on a cold, never mind anything else.

At the moment, they expect cases to increase, but they want to control the increase and keep the flow of new cases sloooooooow. They want people to come into hospital at the same rate as they can be discharged.

Their fear is that if they say anything about gardens, a significant proportion of the population will think that is a green light to crowd two households into one postage stamp garden, and then they will all rush inside the house if it rains. A few cases of that across the country, in conjunction with the other relaxations in guidance, and we could have a rush of people all needing intensive care at once instead of a gentle flow of them.

I find the illogical nature of the guidance quite vexing, but at the same time, the last few months have shown me why it is necessary. Not long before this all kicked off, I saw posters saying they would be offended if someone asked them to wash their hands before cuddling a newborn after a journey on the tube, and claiming that it's good for newborn babies if they're exposed to viruses. For those who don't know, it's not. Newborns are particularly vulnerable to complications of respiratory viruses, and exposing them to colds to strengthen their immune system makes as much sense as exposing the residents of a nursing home to norovirus in order to strengthen their immune systems.