To think people dont understand the magnitude of the social housing crisis?

[Arrowfanatic]

I work in social housing. We have endless requests for moves from customers who expand their family whilst in a property which is unsuitable to move them to a bigger property. We advise that family size housing (3 bed+) has a waiting list of around 10+ years and then these customers get mad.

We're accused of allowing them to stay in overcrowded properties, or affecting their mental & physical health and inevitably an overcrowded property becomes prone to damp & mould as it's too full.

These customers also want these houses in the exact location they desire, thereby limiting even more their chances of a move.

We get so demoralised when every day it's the same thing, but social housing is at a massive shortfall for the needs of the country & family size housing is in an even greater shortfall.

My company has an extensive plan to build more properties but it's a 5 year plan!

It's like they think we're lying to them, or the old classic of "you housing immigrants straight away" note, we dont, they have to apply like everyone else. We dont want our customers in unsuitable accommodation, and we really work hard on making the housing stock we do have work.

If you're in this position what could we tell our customers to make them understand the position we are in, and the one they have put themselves in and why we cant help as quickly as they would like.

I feel like I say "we have a shortage of family size housing" 100 times a day & get yelled at 100 times a day for our association not caring.

Social housing was never intended solely for those out of work or in need. It was built to provide quality housing for ordinary people at a reasonable rent. It was built to stop profiteering landlords sticking people in substandard, overcrowded housing and charging them through the nose for it.

Spot on.

My parents would never have got a council flat if they'd had a bathroom and an indoor toilet, and running hot water year round. My dad had a decent job.

It sounds Dickensian, but we lived like that until 1966.

When my father's employers relocated, they got an "executive" council house in Milton Keynes, and were allowed 3 bedrooms, even though only my DB was living with them. Being a good socialist, my dad would never buy it, even though they could almost have bought it outright.

I'm rather proud of him for that, even though it deprived me and DB of an inheritance.

DP's dad was the same. His mum still lives in the council house he grew up in, she's been there nearly 60 years.

@ddraigygoch there are lots of people that indeed don't give their children the best upbringing (from a middle class point of view). That's why it's called the cycle of poverty! What do you suggest is done about it? Forced sterilisation?

We wouldnt need social housing if there was proper regulation of private landlords- rent caps- mandatory repairs and standards- security of tenure

Yay to this.

If I had a magic wand, that's what I'd wish for. Some landlords are positively criminal, and councils don't have the resources to take action against them. (Current wait for an EHO appointment for disrepair in my area: 4 months, 3 months for a pest control appointment).

Tell them to stop breeding

I really can't abide people who use this kind of language about fellow human beings. Superiority complex comes to mind.

There's not a lot that can be done. But these adults don't have my sympathy. I never give sympathy to abusers. But I absolutely do not think they should be rehoused. If you apply with two children and get handed a three bedroom house then that's it. End of.

The social housing crisis is massive. I would be quite prepared to to solve my own personal housing crisis by stuffing a modest property on the little bit of land I own but the local planners are so utterly nimby that at times it feels society is in reverse!!
Also I here you on the customers front, it is never ok to have to put up with abuse on a daily basis like this.
Wish I had a magic wand for this!

In the mid 70s my Grandparents lived in a 3 bed council property, the wanted to downsize has the garden (huge) had become too much for them and they didnt need the 2 extra bedrooms. At the time the council ran a scheme where they paid for your removals and gave you so much towards decoration and new carpets. My Grandparents took advantage of the scheme and moved into a lovely one bed groundfloor flat and a family with 3 children moved into their old 3 bed. Makes sense to me, so why dont L.As to this now ?
I am so glad our L.A doesnt use a bidding system, it is fairer to all and single men even manage to get Council flats here.

@ddraigygoch

Problem is, for years, having a child got you a council house, having more children got you a bigger council house. It’s going to take time (probably a generation) for that assumption to change.

I agree, completely irresponsible but also not fair on the children born in those circumstances- they didn’t decide to be born in the hope that the state would provide a bigger house for their parents but they’ve got to live with the consequences of their parents actions.

My MIL feels terribly guilty about living alone in her 2-bed council house. But in the 60 years she's been there she has created the most beautiful garden, a riot of roses, clematis, delphiniums, and perennials with a patio full of pots of lilies and pinks. On a summer evening, you could find her house blindfolded, just from the scent. It would grace the prettiest chocolate-box cottage but it's actually a 50's built semi on the outskirts of Croydon.

It is her pride and joy, her life's work and it would kill her to give it up. At 82, it keeps her fit and active. I can't begrudge her that, in her last years.

And they've always paid full rent, so have paid the cost of that house a couple of times over in the time she's been there.

I completely agree. I had many cousins who played the system like a fiddle. You'd swear a 'bad back' was hereditary 😂

But we need to say stop. And this children can only turn the blame on their parents. We need to start drilling home personal responsibility.

I do think mumsnet is very out of touch ,people can't just play the system anymore ,people can't just refuse to work and have child after child and get extra money for it mumsnet is bizarre at times mention anything to do with benefits and posters get jumped on accused of being benefit bashers but as soon as social housing is mentioned ,there is post after post about it being free ( I wish ) and people should be grateful for any old shit ,and people only read what they want to read I had said several times that in many parts of the country social rent is comparable to private rent ,where I live there is little difference in private and social.rent both are relatively cheap but posters ignore this and go on about subsidised rent 🙄

@x2boys people can and absolutely do play the system. It is very possible.

You don’t need that amount to rent privately. Just one months rent plus the deposit.

Deposit is now 5 weeks rent in most cases. And you've omitted the agency fees, which can run into hundreds. They charge for everything: referencing (£50-£100 x 2), credit checks (£50), inventory fee (£50-£100), fee for drawing up the agreement (£150-£250).

So, in my area, £1,200 rent, £1,500 deposit, and £600 in agency fees and you could be looking at £3.3k.

How many families on min wage or even a modest income can raise £3.3k?

One of my last clients before I stopped doing frontline work was a specialist paediatric nurse on a good salary. Luckily, she was able to secure a loan from a charity, set up by local churches, just for this purpose. If that hadn't been possible, she was going to get a new credit card just for this purpose.

Maybe she shouldn't have had her 3 kids, but she had no idea that her loving, hard-working husband was going to develop MH problems and become an abusive alcoholic because he was self-medicating.

Shit happens, and no-one can see the future.

I completely agree. I had many cousins who played the system like a fiddle. You'd swear a 'bad back' was hereditary

Please ask them how they do it.

Perhaps we could get people through their benefit-related medical assessments without having to go to appeal. If the system was that lax, there wouldn't be an 80% success rate for PIP appeals.

I hate to say it but I also think it’s a sense of entitlement? We are currently in the generation of ‘we are all owed this’ and all that happens is the next generation is the same.

A relative is involved with energy use/assessment/heating/ improvement in social housing.

Very recently he visited a (council owned) house in one of the most expensive parts of a relatively expensive SE city where there’s a long waiting list for housing, particularly family houses. A similar house just a few doors away was up for sale for £2m at the time.

For the life of me I can’t understand why the council don’t sell it. In another, much less expensive but certainly not rough area of the city you can buy a perfectly nice, done up, 3 bed ex council house with a garden, for £325-350k. A dd bought one a few years ago and there are several similar for sale. They could have probably 5 family houses for the price of one.

How ddraigy? I have a disabled child he's nine non verbal at a special school in nappies etc etc I had to go to a tribunal.to get the highest rates of DLA under SMI rules despite tonnes of evidence so I know for a fact getting disability benefits isn't a walk in the park .

@LakieLady

Agency fees were banned in June 2019.

I did @LakieLady so the easiest are conditions which can't be 'proven' bad back, Fibromyalgia is a hot one at the moment. I have a close friend who works in social housing. She is also losing the will to love but because she can't cope with listening to people moan one of the complaints being about how difficult it is to work and leave their kids....while she's sat there at work after leaving her child.

I'm not saying it's easy for everyone. But there are absolutely people who abuse the system. I never said that every benefits recipient was a liar.

But don't be naive enough to believe it doesn't happen at all. It does. And it's more than people like to think.

You still.need evidence though they don't just take your word for it ,don't get me wrong I'm on various DLA /PIP.Facebook groups and many people do app!y for DLA with little evidence based on their own opinion but they are rarely successful .

Yes. Evidence from a Dr. So if you're in there wailing and crying and saying you're in agony every time you move that Doctor is going to say that you can't work because of the pain.

I assume the Dr would send you for more tests scans ,xrays etc ,possibly referral to physio ,my understanding of Fibromyalgia is that everything else has to be ruled out first and some Dr,s don't believe it exists anyway ( this is not my opinion ) it's not just a quick visit to the GP and than a successful PIP claim .

The thread moved so quickly and i havent rtft but its bloody hard having sympathy to people 100 times a day every day, i have to be thick skinned and be objective. Off load your anger at your mp and politicians not poor front line staff giving you bad news.

People should also take responsibility for their own choices. Some dont vote, not interested in how or what local councils do with funds or what national gov policies are about... have more children then they can look after then expect us to magic them a nice home with a garden.

The people that shout the loudest, complain, harass us regularly are the ones who are so entitled and not even in actually bad circumstances. They lie and act very dramatic, refuse property for weak reasons and expect so much. I feel like shaking them and telling them how deluded they are but i cant as id lose my job. So yes of course i have to have that barrier i cant takr on your frustration, listen to you moan and vent, thats not my job. It would mess up with my own mental health if i kept being so sympathetic to everyone.. you have to be objective, polite but im tired of people winging at me.

Incidentally the people really vulnerable, really in bad housing are the ones who dont come forward, who may start application but lose touch with us.

And i regularly see people pretending to be single parents, illegally subletting, manipulating the right to buy (which is a massively unfair scheme) or fake 'evictions'.

They do @x2boys my cousin was laughing when telling me they think they're going to turn into the hulk from all the scans they've had.

But that's why you pick things that can't be proven. Like bad backs or fibromyalgia. Because all the tests in the world aren't going to find it. And you can't call a patient a liar. They report what they have in front of them. A sobbing patient living in agony who can't function....

But manages to carry and birth 4 kids, go on holiday three times a year and go shopping everyday.

Like I keep saying. It's not everyone. But it honestly does happen. And it happens a lot.