Working and PIP

[Orangeblossom78]

I'm on long term PIP and ESA due to a combination of health problems. I would love to be able to work part time though.

My situation is, PIP is not due for reassessment for another 5 years. But ESA is due this Autumn 2020. I'm in the support group- the last time it said little chance of work in future, but even so, the DWP chose to reassess it in 3 years. Hence the reassessment.

I find it difficult going through these assessments even though ESA have been pretty good in the past contacting my doctors (I hear they sometimes don't do this) and was wondering if I could maybe by then start a part time job.

AIBU in thinking although I would lose my ESA at that stage I could continue to claim PIP?

You can work and claim pip .pip is non means tested.

It says online (CAB) starting work is not a change in circs for PIP but wondering if coming off ESA and telling DWP about work could also trigger a PIP reassessment.

I'm aware would need to check the PIP points given and that they don't contradict work as well...

PIP is a non-means tested benefit, so in theory, you could carry on receiving it whilst in work. But it would depend on the type of work, I guess. For example, if someone is claiming on the basis of limited mobility and they are in a job that requires high mobility, their entitlement to PIP would come into question.

You will receive your PIP regardless, changes to your ESA won't trigger a reassessment if PIP. You can also work and still receive ESA - it's called permitted work. Double check the guidelines online but it used to be fine if it was less than 16 hours and under £124 a week (roughly)

I've known people in work who continued to be eligible for PIP. Like you say, check what points you received and in which categories. If you working could be seen as demonstrating an improvement in your condition, then possibly it's something the DWP (PIP) may need to know about

Well they will know about it anyway if I come off ESA. I have seen about the permitted work but am doubtful. I can imagine it would trigger an ESA reassessment. I'm keen to keep things as simple as possible as know what a nightmare they can be (have had to appeal in the past).

You can be in receipt of PIP and still be able to work. You can also do permitted work and not lose ESA:

"Work you can do while getting ESA. You can do some paid or unpaid work while you're getting ESA and it won't affect your benefit. This is called 'permitted work', or 'supported permitted work'. Any job can be permitted work as long as each week you're working under 16 hours, and earning up to £131.50. to work.

So, its a great way to try and get back into work. You need to notify DWP if you become more able to do the things which you are awarded points for (or if you worsen). However, if you can manage to work but still need help in the areas of food prep and cooking, dressing and undressing, managing meds and therapy etc then you keep PIP and income from employment.

Obviously if you work for 15.5 hours and less than 131.50 pounds per week that will be the most financially advantageous for you, if you can manage it. Once you work 16 hours you lose the ESA.

Hmmm I know it says you can work and claim pip but tbh they will say if you well enough to work you aren't 'disabled/ill' enough for pip.
I didn't get mobility first time as I took my kids to school by carand parked outside but had to walk them to the playground.... They claimed I therefore had no mobility problems.

I work and get pip. My pip helps me to be able to work and increases the quality of my life. If i don't get pip i would end up too ill to work.

I suppose it depends what kind of work you can do, if they are disability friendly and adapt for your condition etc, and if that contradicts the points

For example a friend has MS and has very limited mobility and cannot move from one place to the next without help, cannot walk at all and it is a wheelchair / mobility scooter. So she would get ESA SG on that criteria only and if that didn't contradict the other points it would be OK. I can see how that would make sense.

But on other points such as prompting etc if you were doing tasks as part of your job that may contradict that. Unless you has support at work as well I suppose.

Also on top if this the PIP criteria themselves keep changing. For example this year there is a new one about special diets qualifying as therapy. I'd probably qualify for this on top of my other points. So confusing

My DD gets PIP and works part time.

She has LD's, Autism and S&L issues. She works as a food prep and cleaner in a fast food place. She just follows instructions and has always been a thorough cleaner (perfectionist).

She gets PIP because she needs help with travelling, money management, prompting to get up, eat, wash etc and is generally vulnerable. Her work isn't at odds with that. She works within walking distance and her manager would phone both her and me, if she didn't show up.

I know another young woman with ASD, who works in JL and still gets PIP. Again she still qualifies.

There's no work that I could do and still get it, unfortunately.

The Citizens Advice did me a benefit calculation if I came off ESA and went onto UC, but had the disabled premium. So could go via them for advice.

Permitted work definitely won't trigger an ESA reassessment, unless you start doing over 16 hours or earn more than the specified amount.

You can absolutely work and get PIP but as you already seem to be aware you would lose your ESA. It would be almost impossible for an assessor to write a report saying you are able to work but still need the benefit, despite the rules of permitted work saying otherwise.

On the Benefits and Work site, they say

"You can do Permitted Work and remain in the Support Group. There is a guide to PW in the ESA section.

You must tell the DWP that you are doing the work so that they can confirm that they are happy with you doing so, this should not result in a reassessment of your claim unless the work you are doing clearly contradicts the limitations that placed you in the SG in the first place. Your doing PW will be considered as a factor at your next reassessment."

I have also seen in another forum (Scope) someone was taken off their ESA after applying for such permitted work.

In my case they have said my criteria is about 'task completion'- 'being unable to complete two or more tasks reliably, repeatedly, safely etc, for the majority of the time"

I can't see how I can do many jobs / work then and not contradict that. It used to be the 'risk' category but they changed it for some reason.

PIP is not means tested, so you will not loose this if you take up paid work and are still eligible for PIP. I don’t know about ESA- my learning disabled newly adult child gets the new universal credit equivalent to ESA and in theory he could do up to a certain number of hours voluntary or paid ( obvious pay below a limit) work or training without affecting his UC if it might lead to improving his prospects or wellbeing or add to his education/ training. He has an allocated advisor at the job centre who is there ir to help him if he has queries or to advise on the next steps - for instance if he wanted help to find a couple of hours placement to help him build work related skills. Do you have a similar advisor who can help you with the next steps if you feel well enough?

Was on high rate PIP, had to claim ESA, and was in the support group.
I desperately wanted of it and registered as a student and self employed and so was able to stop claiming ESA, and used PIP and student loan to go forward.

My carer became a student alongside me, so stopped claiming carers allowance as not entitled to it whilst in education, even though they had to come with me and continue to do all they previously had around their own course. It was all supposed to kickstart a new life.
I've made a loss at self employment. Doesn't fit with full time study.

Latest PIP assessment; assessor with an obvious agenda from the start, decided it was all evidence I'd become less disabled and arbitrarily had my PIP reduced, forcing me to immediately quit.

Then had to stay in bed all day while my carer finished their course.
Bailiffs are now chasing me down for retrospectively applied council tax because I lost my student status and I'm in poor shape as a result of heat vs eat and struggling to cover my rent.
(Also struggling to currently get anyone to take me to the council to present evidence in person of why they should come to a payment arrangement even though I agreed with council to get myself there before Christmas.)

PIP is however now reinstated and I'm trying to continue my education but in such a mess with absolutely everything and all taking it's toll.

Apparently if I can't get immediate work when I finish my course I'll be forced onto UC. My chances of instant employment are very low and I'm terrified of where it's all going to leave me. I'm told I was foolish and it's all my own fault for coming off ESA.

PIP's supposed to allow disabled people to take up employment and education but doing it can become a nightmare.
FME: think hard about what you can survive if things turned on you and make your decision based on that.

Should have said I'm visually physically disabled also some hidden stuff.

Yes i see what you mean- they used my ESA SG as evidence in latest PIP claim so they are linked and can see how they would use it as evidence of improvement. A total benefit trap

YANBU. You can still work to an extent and claim ESA. The whole point of PIP is to make disabled people more able to be independent and ideally work, so work isn't frowned upon, especially if you say you need X, Y, Z help to be able to do it. I wouldn't inform them.

Hopefully you won't be called for another face to face assessment for either ESA or PIP.

Wishing you a happy and relaxing new year. xxxxx

I receive higher rate PIP, both mobility and care, and work full time in a highly paid job. But the issues I receive PIP for are a result of a physical conditon that is not incompatible with a desk job provided the necessary adjustments are in place. Who knows whether one of the awful assessors would have tried to hold it against me though, fortunately I was awarded mine without a face to face, although I did mention the fact that I work in my paperwork.

DO NOT GIVE UP ESA IN ORDER TO TRY WORK! I did this and (despite the rapid reclaim option if you find you cannot work and have to return to ESA within 90 days) when I found I couldn't work and tried to do the rapid reclaim, which I was assured I could do, I found that I could no longer do a Rapid Reclaim and had to start again with a new claim! ALL new claims are now Universal Credit - all over the UK.

7 months it took for the UC equivalent of the support group to be awarded. I was on the lowest rate of UC for 7 months. Using the food bank etc - all because I tried to work.

I ended up on tv being interviewed because of it and my story was even discussed in parliament as it was all down to having been assured by DWP staff that I wouldn't need to make a new claim IF I tried work and was unable to do it and came back within 90 days.

To summarise, Prior to Universal Credit you could do a 'rapid reclaim' and essentially return to your previous level of ESA Support Group with no questions asked - if you tried to work and found you couldn't cope and returned within the 90 period. Not anymore.

Also OP, you will lose your Severe Disablement Premium. That's been scrapped and ANY even slight change of circumstances will remove that extra payment (£60 per week for those who don't know!) from your current claim.

In fact, any slight change in circumstances - even a change of address/bank details etc, will now trigger a changeover to UC (although you'd have transitional protection, so that wouldn't land you in the position I ended up with).

Sorry for essay, I just wanted to make you aware of the risks. Sadly, you think they'd be supportive of you trying work but nope!

OP - PIP is totally separate. Working will definitely not trigger a PIP assessment

@spurs4ever Permitted work definitely won't trigger an ESA reassessment, unless you start doing over 16 hours or earn more than the specified amount.

Sadly this is now false. All changes in circumstances are now triggering a changeover to UC. Trust me - I know! I've been there. Please see my post above

@Orangeblossom78 To clarify - It wasn't permitted work I did. I was going to, however I was told it would trigger a move to UC, however if I came off ESA and found I couldn't cope, I would be able to do a rapid reclaim - this turned out to be false! As I'd left ESA, I lost my transitional protection (which is where ESA payments are continued until UC is FULLY calculated) so I had to start a whooooole brand new claim to UC. Inc the 6 week wait then 7 months on the very very basic rate whilst they assessed me and decided if I was disabled etc etc.

The most annoying part, was that whilst they were deciding if I'm disabled, I had a normal, scheduled pip assessment and was awarded FULL ENHANCED rate of PIP!! 🤦🏼‍♀️🤣

The silver lining however, is that now UC has improved slightly. In that once you've been awarded LCWRA (the UC equivalent of the ESA Support Group), there's a lot more flexibility in terms of trying work.

So my advice to you, is to wait until you've been migrated over to UC, and therefore not had any gaps in payments, and then look at trying work

The rules have recently changed, Shesalittlemadam.

If you are getting a severe disability premium, or you got one within the last month and are still eligible, you CANNOT now claim UC - you need to claim old benefits instead.

If you were eligible for a SDP and claimed UC after 16/01/19 you can ask to go back onto old benefits and DWP should compensate you for the loss of SDP.

If you were eligible for a SDP and claimed UC before 16/01/19 you cannot go back onto old benefits but you qualify for a monthly transitional payment to make up the difference, backdated to the start of your UC claim.

It's taking DWP a while to identify all eligible UC claimants so if you think this applies to you, put a note on your journal.

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/july/compensation-loss-severe-disability-premium-through-claiming-universal-credit