to ask again about what's going on with viruses?

[xtinak]

So I commented this on another thread but it's kind of freaky and I'd really like to know if anyone knows more!

So I've been in the hospital with my DD this afternoon as she's not so well. The nurse practitioner told us that there has been a change in what they've seen with viruses this year. She said it's a new development that they are seeing more children through their doors unwell with multiple viruses at a time and that the viruses are increasingly resistant to high temperatures. I didn't ask about this she just told us. She seemed concerned about it and now I am too.

I've been googling to find out more but without any success. Has anyone else heard this? Can you shed any light?

Thanks!

This years flu strains are particularly bad and, as a group, the under fives are the most likely of all age groups to be hospitalised with flu anyway so when it's a strain that badly affects children it stands to reason more children than usual would be hospitalised.

The mild weather means people are still out mingling, spreading their germs. Bad weather makes people more likely to stay home and infections become self-limiting thanks to the lack of hosts.

Poor uptake rates of the flu vaccine and spray. For example, last year around 75% of over 65s had their vaccines and in all other groups (including at-risk adults) update was around the 45% mark. Lower uptake means more flu viruses circulating, more people catching it and spreading it, etc.

Societal factors such as an increase in unsecured employment, benefit sanctions, attendance targets at school, etc. mean people are more likely to go into work when they shouldn't, go to their DWP appointment, send the DC into school and it then spreads it further.

Lack of GP appointments in some areas mean people can't get advice and treatment in the early stages of an illness so it progresses to the point where they need the hospital.

@Milsplus3 thanks for your reassurance. I think what the nurse was telling me was not that they are seeing the usual seasonal increase but that they are observing something unusual in the nature of these viruses.

I did a degree in virology once upon a time! I don't know anything specifically about what the nurse said and don't see how she'd be in a position to say that based on personal observations (most common viruses aren't ever formally diagnosed by molecular methods, so it's unlikely she would know exactly what everyone had anyway).

That said, viral infections and the number of viruses that can infect humans are increasing. Population growth means more people to infect. Urbanisation leads us to live in closer proximity and viruses spread more easily. Clearing habitats causes emergence of viruses previously only infecting animals. Globalisation and mass transportation moves viruses from areas where the population is immune to where it isn't.

The end of the world is nigh. Yet again.

and they're concerned it needs to be seen more as a national health crisis.

^^

So how do we we go about this? What do we need to do?

The mild weather means people are still out mingling, spreading their germs. Bad weather makes people more likely to stay home and infections become self-limiting thanks to the lack of hosts.

^^

But isn't fresh air a good thing?

FWIW. Antibiotics are not for viruses ffs! The sooner even gps realise this the better. They are for bacterial infections only. More taking of them means less resistance for everyone.
Ds had flu a few weeks ago. Textbook case - was v ill but nothing out of the ordinary for flu.

@Jillyhilly well let's hope not

There has been an issue in this region with delays to flu vaccinations and administrative problems with the school nurse vaccination problems (confusing new forms that 50-70% of people are filling in incorrectly), which have further delayed it. Obviously that has meant more children have caught the flu and there's been quite an outbreak.

Plus a norovirus outbreak that's seen several schools closed at various points.

It's just winter really. And there are plenty of viruses about.

We’re long over due a flu epidemic.

We have vaccinations now and also personal hygiene, flushing toilets etc. A flu epidemic is not on the horizon in the Western Hemisphere.

Norovirus, flu and colds are rampant every single winter, it’s nothing new and it’s common for young children to be hit the hardest.

I think it's just something that happens every few years. 2010 was a bad year, iirc.... Think swine flu was in the mix then as well.

Anecdotally, I agree it's been a bad autumn/winter for bugs. I think just about everyone in our work and wider family has been wiped out by something at some point, which is quite unusual.

So many kids are sick. My friend is a school nurse and she said she's shocked with how much absent kids there were in some primary schools this December.

We have vaccinations now and also personal hygiene, flushing toilets etc. A flu epidemic is not on the horizon in the Western Hemisphere.

There was a pandemic in 2009. If the virus mutates, then vaccination production will be too slow to stop it. We were simply fortunate that the pandemic that occurred was relatively mild. Next time, we may not be so lucky.

I've had a virus for the last 2 weeks - really horrible. Thought it was a cold to start with, but then intermittent vomiting and upset stomach got added to the mix along with a high fever and raging cough. It's taken 10 days for me to feel like I have any enthusiasm about doing anything and I'm still coughing and feeling wheezy and hoarse on day 12.

Loads of people at my work have had it and because the first 2 days feel like a cold it's gone round like wildfire, because by the time people (incl. me) have gone off sick on day 3, they've already infected their colleagues

I think austerity isn't helping - more people going into work when not feeling 100% or sending ill DC to school because they don't want to miss work, plus people being generally more stressed and not eating as healthily so their immune systems aren't as great.

Increasing population density and air pollution also aren't great, DM says DBro and I were rarely ill as DC...of course we weren't we lived in a tiny village in the alps (clean air) ate lots of food from peoples vegetable patches (healthy, organic) and only ever saw the same kids. No soft play in those days!

Ive had flu. Started last thurs, tired very sore throat, then fevers and chills and the phlegm there was went straight to green. Aching muscles etc. Then i would feel better then worse again.
It is definitely the sort of thing to lead to throat/chest/ear infection and got sticky eyes too.
Dc2 had just had a tickly cough with fever earlier in the week so i thought it was that. Although she was also rather off colour and exhausted for days.

Dc also had d&v twice in nov/dec 10 days apart so yes nasty stuff above. Dc1 class had a lot of kids off with fevers and feeling off colour at the end of term.

Younger kids are most likely not to have seen similar virues.

Virures that cause croup can be nasty as croupy cough /utis/ear infections/sticky eyes and even d&v. So spread easily

Personally I think the warm winters make stomach bugs more prevelant but flu and colds less so.
I haven’t noticed lots of people with runny noses and sneezing but I bet when we get the late Spring cold snap everyone will be down with something.

Central heating doesn't help
It breeds bugs, fresh air helps but mingling with others will help spread any virus. When my mum had TB as a teenager, she was in a specialist hospital and they were put out on the balcony in their beds fully wrapped up to help blow the bugs away.

I do epidemiology, work with a virologist...

From my primitive understanding, the more people around, the more exposure to each other, the more chances viruses have to evolve (viruses love to mutate). So the more likely they will come up with a mutation which makes them a bit more ... virulent :). So definitely viruses are in a race against 'us' to get us.

What OP describes is one child presenting with multiple viruses. But do we know this didn't happen a lot in past? We don't, actually. As head of infection control said to me not long back, if the hospital test a very ill person for virus X that matches symptoms, and find virus X, they don't continue testing for other viruses. They just assume virus X is the problem & treat accordingly. They don't keep looking for all the bugs unless person doesn't respond to treatment for virus X. Or develops symptoms that don't fit with virus X.

Odds are, treatment for virus X will also help deal with viruses Y, Z, A, B & C that person may have. So no one will ever know about YZABC.

Kids are super spreaders & get multiple things easily (due to lack of prior immunity). We should expect them to have multiple things to fend off typically.

So to me, OP's story doesn't mean there are more viruses.. it means there is More Testing! I wonder where this is, where they started to do more surveillance.

I haven't been ill for years. I've succumbed this year. There is a lot going round I agree.

I think social media and communication has something to do with it. We wouldn’t have previously known what was happening in the other schools, next town etc. Now we all post about it there’s a feeling it’s more common

Do some research into how viruses work.
Look up antigenic drift and antigenic shift.