AIBU to request no male midwife

[Hellofromtheotherside2020]

I know I'm probably being unreasonable, but I am due to give birth soon and at the hospital where I'm planning on giving birth, there are a few male midwives employed.

I think it's great that there are male midwives. It really must take a special kind of man to want to do that job and I expect they're very professional and amazing in their roles.

I know many women who've said that having a male midwife was better than a female etc etc as they were more sympathetic.

But for some reason, which I can't explain as I don't know why, I just feel so uncomfortable at the thought of having a male deliver my baby. It's not a sexual thing. I don't think a man will look at my vagina and get turned on or anything like that. I know they see plenty every day. I would feel uncomfortable, vulnerable, exposed and embarrassed if there was a man present (other than DH).

I know people will say "when you're in labour you won't care who's in the room", but I will care. I've given birth three times before and I did care then. I enjoyed my previous births and I was comfortable being surrounded by lovely women caregivers. I felt very feminine and powerful. I didn't care if the female caregiver had given birth herself or not, so it's not even a case of feeling the male midwife wouldn't have empathy or anything like that, which is what my friend suggested.

Am I the only person who feels like this?
How can I articulate my request to the hospital in my birth plan without sounding like a sexist pig? I feel so bad feeling his way as I know they're great at their jobs. I just know for sure I'd be so uncomfortable in my primal self giving birth and likely pooping myself in front of another man.

I'm the same with GPs and even dentists too, I just feel more comfortable under the care of another woman. What's wrong with me? Come to think of it, any make who is in a position of power/authority to me (eg senior colleagues) I always feel so vulnerable and inferior. Why?!!!! Help!

I would say it depends on who is working that day but people need to bear in mind it’s going to be a tough winter for the NHS and staffing numbers. But then I realised you’re not in the UK

At least you’re consistent with the whole no male staff even though l don’t understand it. It does tickle me when people are happy to be treated by male doctor but not male nurses or midwives. As a healthcare professional personally lm never phased about whether the patient is male or female, l am just there to care for them

Derbee - I never said anyone agreed about the dentists? FYI the dentist thing is unrelated. I had a traumatic experience when I was 8 until I was 11, and alone in a dentists room. Therefore I don't feel comfortable using one. I had used a male dentist a few years ago and as lovely as he was, it triggered past events. Now I see a female dentist. Whether that makes me sexist or not, I don't care. It's unrelated to this.

I'm not sexist though, I know that. Outside of anything medical, I would have no gender preference. Male or female pilots, I don't care. Male or female builders, or shop workers, no preference. Just when it comes to my body, I prefer female care because it makes me feel less vulnerable.

This could've hokum but I read somewhere that males in the vicinity of women giving birth can cause labour to slow down/stall. Or more precisely a woman giving birth's body responds negatively to her awareness of the presence of males.

I’ve seen this too but can’t remember where. The summary was that Labour I shorter and less likely to require intervention if men were not around, including the husband/father - in other words, a man one would expect the Labouring woman to be comfortable with. I shall see if I can find the source.

So... If a woman is allowed (allowed!) to choose the sex of her HCP on the basis of past trauma, and is not required to disclose details of said trauma, you arrive at a situation where women can request female HCP without explanation, yes?

Well, no. The woman would need to cite past trauma as her reason. I accept that you might not find that reasonable, but I don’t find it reasonable to specify the sex of a HCP without reason.

puds11

Huh, what? She said the doctors (presumably in the maternity ward) are female, but that it employs some male midwives.

I think you should be able to request but in practice you might not always get the choice. I always requested a female dr for my 6 week checks at the GP and from what they said, they don’t tend to book post natal checks in with the male GPs as so many women prefer a woman. But, I think in an acute setting, you do have to adapt a bit more.

With my first, I had a male obstetrician who did an instrumental delivery and stitched me up. I had a male anesthetist who was the best person In the world at that time. The obstetrician would have probably seen more than any of the female midwives. I genuinely didn’t care as I wanted my baby out by any means possible and I needed those male doctors to help me. That said. I don’t think I’d like the idea of a male midwife doing a stretch and sweep in a community setting. It always felt like quite an intimate procedure and I think I’d be a bit uncomfortable.

Hi OP I understand and give my experiences as follows:

I had a second induction (it failed) however my cervix was high and my waters needed breaking manually: the female midwife could not do it - they called a male consultant to do it. I was put in a room with gas and air and legs in stirrups - the consultant then used an instrument to push and push literally wit all his strength to break my waters - he was shaking I was rocking about my Husband was holding me I was taking gas and air - honestly the female midwife was in shock he was so so violent with me - I felt heavily bruised afterward and in a lot of pain. The consultant joked that it had been like a workout and he was physically sweating.

My second experience was in NICU with my baby with a male neo natal nurse who commented my breasts were the size of my baby's head when I was trying to breast feed my poorly baby.

So if I ever had a baby again I was no male medical professional near me.

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Parents and parenting
Men should ‘stay away from childbirth’
A leading obstetrician claims that women are more likely to have a host of problems if partners are at delivery
Denis Campbell
Sat 17 Oct 2009 19.34 EDT
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10 years old
For many men, attending the birth of a child is a momentous and emotional occasion. However, one of the world's leading obstetricians says the father's presence can lead to his partner needing a caesarean delivery, and even to marriage break-ups and mental illness.

Michel Odent, a childbirth specialist, also believes the mother-to-be's labour can be longer, more painful and more complicated because she senses his anxiety and becomes nervous. Babies' arrival in the world would be more straightforward if women were left alone with only a midwife to help them, as they used to be, Odent will tell the Royal College of Midwives' annual conference in Manchester next month, where he is a guest speaker.

"The ideal birth environment involves no men in general. Having been involved for more than 50 years in childbirths in homes and hospitals in France, England and Africa, the best environment I know for an easy birth is when there is nobody around the woman in labour apart from a silent, low-profile and experienced midwife – and no doctor and no husband, nobody else," Odent told the Observer. "In this situation, more often than not, the birth is easier and faster than what happens when there are other people around, especially male figures – husbands and doctors."

The presence of men during their partner's labour produce adrenaline, which makes the woman tense and slows her production of the hormone oxytocin, which is vital for birth, says Odent. "If she can't release oxytocin she can't have effective contractions, and everything becomes more difficult. Labour becomes longer, more painful and more difficult because the hormonal balance in the woman is disturbed by the environment that's not appropriate because of the presence of the man." What he calls "the masculinisation of the birth environment" helps to explain the fact that 24% of women in the UK now have a caesarean section, he said.

Odent, a Frenchman who also runs the Primal Health Research childbirth charity in London, decries the fact that since the 1950s it has become increasingly expected that the man will attend the birth. He links it to the "industrialisation of childbirth", when women began giving birth in hospital rather than at home and wanted someone to support them during the process. Studies show that men now attend for some or all of more than 90% of births in the UK.

His views brought a vigorous response last night. Duncan Fisher, chief executive of the website Dad Info, who is debating with Odent at the event, said: "I think Odent is wrong and is not basing his argument on evidence either that it damages men or their relationships with mothers. Of course, not all men are nervous and a lot of women would be even more nervous without their partner there.Mothers want them there because it is not home."

But Mary Newburn, of the National Childbirth Trust, the country's biggest parenting organisation, defended Odent and said that, although men being present was now considered normal, some felt under pressure to attend their child's birth because of cultural expectations. "There's such a feeling among women that 'you got me into this, I have carried the baby for nine months and now I have to go through labour and birth, so the least you can do is be with me, and if you feel a bit squeamish, then tough'. I wouldn't go as far as Odent in saying that men are always unhelpful in labour. But it's not men's right to be there. The most important thing is that the woman feels safe, secure and supported, so if she wants to have a woman around instead, that's fine."

Odent said that men witnessing childbirth can ruin the sexual attraction between a couple and lead to them becoming just good friends and thengetting divorced. Some men end up suffering from a widely-unrecognised male equivalent of postnatal depression, he added. Others end up playing golf or computer games – or even walking out and never returning – as they try to avoid their new reality. A few end up with schizophrenia or other mental disorders, he said.

Grace Thomas, a consultant midwife with the Aneurin Bevan health board in Wales, who will chair the Odent-Fisher debate, has studied expectant fathers' attitudes towards pregnancy. Her research has found that new fathers may undergo emotional turmoil before and after their child's birth as they adjust.

"Perhaps the midwifery profession has contributed to encouraging men to attend their child's birth without understanding the impact of the birth both on them and on the mother. It's important that we understand the psychology of the family unit and how to best help and prepare the father to attend his child's birth," said Thomas.

@churchandstate

In cases of trauma, that’s obviously different. But in general, I think it’s unreasonable.

At least 1 in 5 women have suffered sexual assault from men. We’re surrounded by trauma.

Some posters on here are thick handmaidens if they don’t understand OP’s worries and call her sexist

Our surgery encourages patients from the home page of their website to disclose if they require a particular sex of GP.

Of course YANBU and to suggest otherwise is frankly ridiculous.

Giving birth is a highly intimate and invasive process and lots of women would prefer female HCPs. Whether this be because of past trauma, for religious reasons or just because they don't feel comfortable with a male HCP then this preference should be upheld.

The elephant in the room of course is that male doctors are infinitely more likely to abuse their position to sexually assault their patients. This may well be a relatively tiny minority of male doctors but this is still a risk that many women are instinctively aware of and would like to avoid almost completely by opting for female HCPs. NAMALT etc but let's not pretend that women's fears are completely unfounded or have no basis whatsoever.

Yabvu unless you are paying to go private, as long as they are qualified it shouldn't matter.

Sorry but I think you may need some counselling regarding this if you always have issues with men such as you've described.

I would refuse a male dentist . Very bad experience as a teen with a male dentist - this is not necessarily information I'd share with anyone

So we’ve had the good old racist gotcha of ‘what if ...black person?’, have we had the good old homophobic ‘what if...lesbian’ gotcha yet? Lesbians are usually thrown into the argument at some stage.

@EL8888 At least you’re consistent with the whole no male staff even though l don’t understand it. It does tickle me when people are happy to be treated by male doctor but not male nurses or midwives. As a healthcare professional personally lm never phased about whether the patient is male or female, l am just there to care for them

For me it is not an issue of the role of the professional but the type care they are carrying out.

So when it came to who was slicing me open with a knife I did not mind whether it was a man or a women.

When it came to my post natal care (I was quite ill) and I required a healthcare professional to hand express my breasts, give me bed baths and change my pads then I expected that to be a done by females.

At least 1 in 5 women have suffered sexual assault from men. We’re surrounded by trauma.

Me among them, but I don’t feel that a male HCP would bother me at all. I accept that some women feel differently about it, and if their reason is based in a traumatic experience then I think they are not being unreasonable. But otherwise, I think they are.

I feel like this is a situation in which it is OK for OP to be sexist, because her health and comfort are more important than whether or not a male midwife gets to treat her. She's already losing sleep over it

So change male for black. Still ok? Is a patients health and comfort the most important thing then?

Come off it. Biological sex and race are not the same thing.

I was going to ask the same thing. Of course race and sex are different things, but the suggestion was that the patient's comfort was always all that mattered. An inherently racist patient probably would feel very uncomfortable at the idea of being treated by somebody of a different race. Does that mean that, as their comfort is paramount, they can quite reasonably request 'no black or Asian doctors, please' (or vice versa)?

What about if a patient was uncomfortable trusting a young (fully qualified) HCP because of their lack of experience? Is it OK for them to specify that their surgeon must be between 50-65 years old, as anybody much younger will make them very anxious and distressed?

That obviously focussed more on father's bug the general principle is men in general.

I'm sure I've seen this in some birthing book too but not sure if there's been any real study.

I was going to say YABU but then when I read your posts I don’t think you are.

It sounds like you have a genuine issue with men in a power position and feeling vulnerable. I think if you can it would be an idea to talk it over with the hospital psychologist and get it written into a sensitive birthing plan (different to a self written birth plan) to avoid/manage male practitioners where possible. Obviously if it’s an emergency then you might not have a choice, but if they are aware then they can take that extra step to make sure you still feel some control and announce their arrival etc. if no one really knows this is affecting you then they can’t help.

I’m sorry you sound so stressed about this.

The elephant in the room of course is that male doctors are infinitely more likely to abuse their position to sexually assault their patients.

Exactly. Why do people think that because someone has obtained a qualification there is suddenly no chance of them being a predator?

Well, no. The woman would need to cite past trauma as her reason. I accept that you might not find that reasonable, but I don’t find it reasonable to specify the sex of a HCP without reason.

What do you mean by "cite past trauma"? Is saying I need a woman because of past trauma okay or is that not enough detail?

Even with what is written in my medical notes including diagnoses of pstd from an NHS consultant psychriatrist, I'm not sure I'd feel safe accessing health care under your rules.

Thanks Sandals

It should go in the notes, or she should be prepared to give an explanation (which doesn’t have to be detailed). Sorry that we don’t agree but there it is.

So you expect an already traumatised woman to traumatise herself further by letting all those looking at her notes to know she was abused, just so she’s not thought of as sexist? Wise the fuck up!

On another note, it’s the SEX of the midwife the OP is concerned about. It’s very difficult to respect the views of posters who are using the sexist stereotype gender.

The OP has a problem with men in most roles or positions of responsibility. If it was a man who was against women in any position of responsibility, people would be furious.

When men have issues with women being in positions of responsibility, it’s usually because of preconceived notions about the woman’s competence. When women have concerns about men in similar positions, it’s more likely to be about abuse of authority, especially when the woman is in a particularly vulnerable position (e.g. semi-naked and giving birth). It’s not the same thing.

@IWantADifferentName

Today 12:28 IWantADifferentName

This could've hokum but I read somewhere that males in the vicinity of women giving birth can cause labour to slow down/stall. Or more precisely a woman giving birth's body responds negatively to her awareness of the presence of males.

Michel Odent says this.