To use the word “queer”?

[BowermansNose]

A few times recently I’ve found myself wanting to use the word “queer” to describe something odd or unusual (in the original sense of the word). I don’t know if I’m being influenced by some novels I’ve read of whatever. My parents also have an expression “up Queer Street”.

However, I’m obviously aware of the other meaning that relates to sexuality, and it has had pejorative connotations.

AIBU to use “queer” in the original sense?

When I was a child, the shortened version of Pakistani was used regularly, even in the work place where Pakistani people were working alongside everyone else. So was 'Darkie'. It was in the 60's when if someone felt ill they would feel queer, if something was a bit odd it would be queer and if someone was short of money they would be in Queer Street.

I remember words being taken to mean something else and I liked the word queer as it used to be. Larry Grayson and his 'gay day' seemed to herald the end of gay meaning happy.

Musical version of something gay from 1919 to listen to while you read.

Amateur etymologist here (and a gay person too).

As a word, queer dates back to the 16th century. Its original use was to mean something abnormal, freakish or unwelcome. (It was often used to describe counterfeit money.) That usage continued until the tail end of the 20th century, although it became a touch more conversational; how many of us remember hearing our grandparents say they 'felt a bit queer' when they were feeling unwell?

But that's also why it was an easy word for homophobic people to apply to gay people, because the intended meaning was already there; something wrong, sick, abnormal.

There are occasions of it being used to describe gay people since the early 20th century but the significant 'reclaiming' dates from the late 1980s. It coincides with the AIDS crisis, when the use of queer as a pejorative by homophobic straight people was back on the rise. It had particular sting and resonance as a term because the original meaning (something peculiar, sick or strange) dovetailed neatly with how homophobes which was most people, back then saw and wished to describe gay people.

It might have had benign(ish) meaning for a while, but that itself was a linguistic shift from the more pungent original meaning.

I feel that too much pejorative water has passed under the bridge now for queer to be heard with anything other than clunky awkwardness, if not outright offence. The English language changes; it's one of the most fluid languages in the world and that is one of its most wonderful characteristics. But what it doesn't tend to do is revert to older usages once they've fallen out of regular parlance.

I'm actually surprised by the number of people on this thread who still claim to use it to mean unusual or odd. I find it an extremely dated term, and I can't remember the last time I heard someone under 75 say it.

When I was a child, the shortened version of Pakistani was used regularly, even in the work place where Pakistani people were working alongside everyone else. So was 'Darkie'. It was in the 60's when if someone felt ill they would feel queer, if something was a bit odd it would be queer and if someone was short of money they would be in Queer Street.

Well, hurrah for the good ol' days, eh?

I would not use this word in its original context as I would not want people to think I was ignorant or homophobic.

Of course it can be used in its original sense. As can the word gay.

^I still use it to mean what it has always meant until it was also adopted by the LGBTQ community.

Whilst there's nothing wrong at all with adopting a word to describe yourself, your friendship circle, your community etc, you can't just steal a common word and demand that others stop using it in its long-established sense.^

The LGBTQ community did not "adopt" or "steal" the word queer. It was thrown at them - by "others" as an insult! What they have done is reclaimed that word.

Straight culture changed the word's meaning - made it a negative - LGBTQ culture has worked hard to turn it into something more positive. Straight culture can't demand to reclaim it now!

Using either word would certainly not suggest ignorance - the opposite, in fact.

When I was a child, the shortened version of Pakistani was used regularly, even in the work place where Pakistani people were working alongside everyone else. So was 'Darkie'. It was in the 60's when if someone felt ill they would feel queer, if something was a bit odd it would be queer and if someone was short of money they would be in Queer Street.

But that's surely the point - P* and Darkie was being directed at people from immigrant backgrounds , whereas Queer was being (and is) used as a normal word to refer to something completely unrelated to homosexuals.

Ditto for the word straight. Otherwise how do you talk non curvy lines?!

Well I'm a lesbian and l could care less about the words queer and gay. They just words . I don't even care if someone calls me queer. So using the word in right context would not even be a problem to me

The absolute disingenuity of people on threads like this is boggling.

It's not like you don't have a vast array of alternative words at your disposal in the English language, to use instead.

But crack on. If you must.

BowermansNose But that's surely the point - P* and Darkie was being directed at people from immigrant backgrounds , whereas Queer was being (and is) used as a normal word to refer to something completely unrelated to homosexuals.

Exactly.
And then there was Alf Garnet who didn't help anyone at all.

I have to go now, too much ice cream has made me feel a bit queer/sick.

LimeRedBanana & Blatherskite

Apologies for my bad terminology there - of course, it was used as a term of abuse by some people before some members of the community reclaimed it.

That said, it has also been used by many, many people for probably centuries to mean strange, odd, peculiar, unusual. This is how I would naturally use it - I have never and would never use it to apply to an LGBTQ person.

As I said before, I have never dreamt of using the word 'monkey' as a nasty racist insult, but I refuse to stop using a perfectly good common word with a widely-accepted meaning when talking about a simian animal.

Straight culture changed the word's meaning - made it a negative - LGBTQ culture has worked hard to turn it into something more positive. Straight culture can't demand to reclaim it now!

So all heterosexual people in the English-speaking world over several decades got together and decided that they were ALL going to use a perfectly normal word as an insult, did they - and only as an insult from that point on? I didn't realise that there were two distinct English languages to choose from, depending on your sexuality

Do you relish creating social misunderstandings and glory in being self-righteous about other people being "unnecessarily" offended? If so, crack on.

Surely saying (for example) 'my computer is acting queer' has only one meaning? Surely anyone offended by that would be a little odd.

Equally obviously: don't call people queer.

I think that time is a factor here
The word gay is now most commonly used to mean homosexual.
I collect dictionaries (I know, sad), and in my 1973 Shorter Oxford dictionary, gay as homosexual is the 7th definition, behind 1) full of joy, 2) airy and off-hand, 3) dissolute, 4) relating to a beautiful woman, 5) in good health and 6) brightly decorated
Now, it is the first definition
Queer has not yet made the transition from secondary to primary meaning. That may, and probably will, change. The Oxford English Dictionary reflects actual use, not what people think a word 'should' mean, or in what manner the word is used.
There are also quite a lot of words that enter the dictionary for a short time but do not have any staying power, so that a new word may be ubiquitous for a year or two and then never heard of again, or an old word may adopt a new meaning that is only transitory.
All this 'reclaiming' words is bollocks. If you want to use the word 'gay' to mean 'brightly decorated' you can, though most people will misunderstand you, because the accepted definition of gay is now homosexual, and has become so, because that is the definition that most people use.
Queer as a descriptor of sexuality (rather than as a term of abuse) is a relatively new definition, and, while it is is in the dictionary is not, yet, common enough to be the main definition.

And gollys are still wrong

So all heterosexual people in the English-speaking world over several decades got together and decided that they were ALL going to use a perfectly normal word as an insult, did they - and only as an insult from that point on?

Oh, come now, it's a pretty ubiquitous term of abuse. It evolved from not wanting to say someone was gay, so hinting at it. It became something shouted in abuse and used to alienate. It's not something gay people chose.

Why wouldn’t you use it in a professional setting? Given you’re confident no unpleasant intent could be inferred.

I’m in my 40s and have never heard anyone use this word with its original meaning in conversation. I’m surprised so many people find it in common use where they are.

It's not like you don't have a vast array of alternative words at your disposal in the English language, to use instead.

But crack on. If you must.

It's not all about you, though. Nobody owns the English language.

If my laptop glitches and I think "Hmm, that's queer" am I expected to become my own personal thought police and admonish myself for my rampant entrenched homophobia, when nothing of the sort ever entered my mind for a moment?

Of course, as with the word 'monkey' in the presence of non-white people, I would carefully modulate my phrasing to avoid any appearance of intending to cause offence. Sad to say, because there are nasty intolerant people out there, it means that those of us using innocent language feel compelled to distance ourselves from them in certain scenarios; so I wouldn't use the word queer in front of somebody I knew to be gay to avoid the appearance of intending to be insulting or even triggering them.

However, just because somebody either appropriates a word for themselves or as an insult for another person, doesn't automatically make that everyday word taboo in every case.

Should zoologists be forced to find another word for 'pachyderm' when talking about elephants, just in case anybody hears the first part (and maybe also the second and misconstrues it as 'dumb') and thinks they're making vile comments about Asians?

Nasty racists have used the word 'Spick' in the past as a derogatory term for a person of Hispanic origin, but that doesn't mean that hundreds of cleaning companies whose names include that word are deliberately trying to be racist - or even thinking of anything other than cleanliness.

There was a thing on Top Gear a few years back where it was alleged the word 'slope' was used as a slur against an Asian. It sounds like it may have been deliberate, which is appalling; but I'd never even heard it in that context before (as, I imagine, hadn't most people). I'm not going to stop referring to a graduated ramped surface by using a common everyday word, just because some sick people have decided to misuse the word as a nasty one.

If anything, those of us using ordinary words in their normal senses are (without even knowing it) helping to reclaim them from those who would seek to abuse them as insults.

Oh, come now, it's a pretty ubiquitous term of abuse. It evolved from not wanting to say someone was gay, so hinting at it. It became something shouted in abuse and used to alienate. It's not something gay people chose.

As is the word 'monkey' when used as a racist insult. It doesn't mean that we would or should stop using the word in its appropriate innocent context.

In fact, you just used the word 'come'. A LOT of immature people will snigger if ask them "Are you coming?" or "Do you come here often?" and some particularly sensitive sorts might even think you're deliberately trying to be rude and use threatening innuendo. Should we dump that word as well and strike it from our everyday vocabularies?

Why wouldn’t you use it in a professional setting? Given you’re confident no unpleasant intent could be inferred.

Because I think it's a bit slangy, and a bit informal, and there are some people who (oddly in my opinion) could be offended. In a social setting, I'd be likely to know the people I'm speaking with, their level of education, their sexuality, their politics, etc.

I’m in my 40s and have never heard anyone use this word with its original meaning in conversation. I’m surprised so many people find it in common use where they are.

So am I and I've heard it used lots.

....In fact, if you've ever read "Trixie Belden and the Mystery of the Blinking Eye" (and your user name suggests that you're a fan), chapter 9 is called "A Queer Coincidence". I haven't read it myself, but I very much doubt it's about a homosexual person.

Should we dump that word as well and strike it from our everyday vocabularies?

I don't support banning any words. I think telling people not to use words in obviously inoffensive contexts is silly.

I was disagreeing with your post which seemed to be arguing about the context causing it to become offensive.

It's clearly offensive in some situations for good reason. Expecting people not to use it in those contexts is not snowflakery.