To use the word “queer”?

[BowermansNose]

A few times recently I’ve found myself wanting to use the word “queer” to describe something odd or unusual (in the original sense of the word). I don’t know if I’m being influenced by some novels I’ve read of whatever. My parents also have an expression “up Queer Street”.

However, I’m obviously aware of the other meaning that relates to sexuality, and it has had pejorative connotations.

AIBU to use “queer” in the original sense?

Yup, that's how language works.

Well, language doesn't work by you setting down the rules for how English is used. You're not L'Academie Anglaise. All we can do is collect evidence of how English is used and look at dictionaries. The OED gives the primary definition of the word as "Strange, odd" and it describes it as informal and dated. The offensive meaning is listed as the second definition.

The descriptivist approach to language usage isn't a pick-and-mix on. You have to include all the data you can collect on a word's usage and connotations, not just the ones that support the viewpoint you like!

Also, that's a very truncated OED entry. Be right back with that...

These conversations always remind me of adolescent boys finding excuses to quote the "dirty bits" in the Bible and following it up with "but it's the Bible, Miss!"

What an inane comparison. It is perfectly possible and acceptable to use words like retard (vb), retardant, retardation etc without suggesting anything except their given meaning.

What an inane comparison. It is perfectly possible and acceptable to use words like retard (vb), retardant, retardation etc without suggesting anything except their given meaning.

Possible is not the same as "what is definitely happening in any situation".

I don't know why people aren't more eager to divorce their own supposed legitimate usage from puerile muppets clinging on their coat-tails. I wouldn't want my academic work or reading to be used as an excuse by other people trying to get reactions out of others without admitting they were doing it.

Remaining screenshot from the OED.

I think I've got all the entry now, but I may not have. To access it for yourself, go to your online borough/town council library portal, and look under the resources tab.

Ok, the geek in me did some research, thanks to books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=queer&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cqueer%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2Cqueer%3B%2Cc0

Long story short, the word queer peaks in usage in about 1920 - Maugham uses it a lot, and as I said, I just read it). It drops in usage gradually until around 1990, where it picks up again (which I assume is due to the growth in the discussion around LGBTQ rights). But extrapolating the downward curve would suggest that "queer" is still a word in use (albeit as an archaic word)

Thanks for sharing the OED text.

That made me laugh, WeBuilt, as I'm actually French.
I still don't think the way people speak, communicate in 'text speak' or converse in different languages, bears any resemblance to using such a loaded, archaic word.

take "beyond the pale" as an example

I must have missed that memo too. "Beyond the pale " is offensive?

There was also the recent outcry when Eamonn Holmes described Meghan M as being 'uppity' and he was decried as being racist for doing so. I've never understood the term to be race-specific in any way and I gather that neither had Eamonn. Not saying that it hasn't been used that way in the past (mainly in the USA), but I'd wager that the vast majority of British people, if you asked them to define 'uppity', wouldn't even think to link it with a specific race.

He's hardly likely to have said it and risk his prime position if he had believed it to be racist, is he - even if he were a racist and thought it in his head?

I thought Pp was joking when they said the Pakistani store had 'paki shop' on a massive sign above it. I mean...I've heard it all now.

And now, with the word 'retard' thrown into the mix, with a straight face as well, I can see what this thread is really about. Well played, OP.

And now, with the word 'retard' thrown into the mix, with a straight face as well, I can see what this thread is really about. Well played, OP.

Indeed. Not to mention the 'uppity' Meghan Markle.

You could assume that. Other possibilities are that they adopted a resigned, if you can’t beat ‘em, join em approach. Or they had very highly developed senses of irony. Or they hadn’t been in the country very long and genuinely thought it was an affectionate abbreviation. Or it was a cynical money making decision. Or it was an attempt to defuse what they felt to be a scary and threatening situation. Who knows? On balance better not to use the word. Just in case, eh?

So much overthinking. Get a grip.

It was the early 60s. They never felt scared or threatened, they were much loved and respected members of the community. With a sense of humour. The dad had the allotment next to my dad. This was a village not the scary inner city. Their children stayed around the area and now their grandchildren. I doubt they'd choose that name now but times were different then.

They were welcomed into the community with open arms and one of their sons is now a GP here. They must have liked us.

Well, I suppose Eamonn Holmes might have managed to skip all his media training and therefore not know the implications....

Meghan Markle was also described as “exotic” by the way.......

Gadzooks, I hope you had a bingo card started, because I didn't.

Verily, I tell thee, I hadst not foreseen this.

"Uppity", really.

Fair enough, then, Sagradafamiliar - I didn't know that!

I don't think we're at odds as to whether somebody has the right to use a word knowingly to offend; of course, that's a terrible thing to do.

I think we might just have to disagree as to whether a word that some people consider archaic whilst others consider an everyday innocent word IS categorically defined as unquestionably archaic and/or loaded and thus considered verboten for everybody.

Not quite the same thing, I know, but back to the different country scenarios, there are some words that are widely considered offensive in one country but as everyday mundane words in another, and I think this is just a British regional/generation/class version of that.

In the USA, the words 'damn' and 'hell' are widely considered offensive and most public figures would steer clear of saying them in public, for fear of offending people. In the UK, nobody would bat an eyelid at them. Then again, I can't imagine a politician or TV presenter (before the watershed) saying the word 'shit', but in the Netherlands, it's a completely mild, everyday word.

Somebody mentioned the word 'slut' upthread. I think Godfrey Bloom got in trouble for using this word a little while ago (not the only thing he's got himself in hot water for!) To most people, it's unquestionably an insulting and sexually shaming word, whereas, for posh people of a certain generation, it simply means 'messy'. Telling the latter that it's an offensive word would just leave them completely puzzled - as puzzled as would be most 'common' people on being told that it isn't an offensive word.

So much overthinking. Get a grip.

Nah, that's just called thinking.

JamieVardysHavingAParty

I know, it just seems so bizarre. Most words have probably had a derogatory implication at one time or another.

In fact, I don't know whether you were aware of it, but 'Gadzooks' was originally considered a very offensive word indeed - a corruption of 'God's hooks' i.e. making fun of the nails used to crucify Jesus.

Catholics would also have found 'bloody' ('by Our Lady') extremely offensive at one time.

Possible is not the same as "what is definitely happening in any situation"

Full marks for stating the screamingly obvious. What do you actually suggest in the case of retard (vb), retardant or retardation? That they are not used at all because someone might, in a different context, deploy them in a way that seeks to give offence?

I know, WeBuilt, I find it so interesting (it was me who mentioned 'slut' btw, as an example of a 'reclaimed' word).

It still doesn't take away from the fact that OP is in the U.K. as far as I know, wanting to use the word 'queer'.

In fact, I don't know whether you were aware of it, but 'Gadzooks' was originally considered a very offensive word indeed - a corruption of 'God's hooks' i.e. making fun of the nails used to crucify Jesus.

Gadzooks is indeed short for god's hooks, but as far as I'm aware, there is limited support for the idea that bloody was definitely a shortening of "by Our Lady".

I just don't see how 'queer' is like 'uppity' or 'retard'.

I cannot think of a single friendly-sounding phrase including the latter two words. By contrast 'nowt as queer as folk' is such a familiar phrase used to indicate pleasant eccentricity. You do not say 'there's nowt as queer as folk' to suggest that you think someone is horrible. You say it when Auntie Mabel has, yet again, gone to walk the dog in the rain. Or when people are queuing out the door because there's a sale on in Marks. There's not an implication of judging people who are different from you - you're implying we're all, as a species, fucking weird.

Clearly, 'queer' can be used as a pejorative, and I find that pretty horrible. Personally, I dislike its use in a LGBT context too (though I've no issue with people who want to use it doing so).

But it is not, in my view, a word whose pejorative connotation in relation to sexuality means it couldn't be used in its earlier sense.

I always thought that Catholics didn't like 'bloody' because 'Bloody Mary' slaughtered a load of Protestants.

Full marks for stating the screamingly obvious. What do you actually suggest in the case of retard (vb), retardant or retardation? That they are not used at all because someone might, in a different context, deploy them in a way that seeks to give offence?

I suggest you stop being sly and disingenuous about the whole situation in discussions on t'internet. Small goals, small goals.

I cannot think of a single friendly-sounding phrase including the latter two words.

Agree on uppity but for retard how about This chemical is used to retard combustion and the spread of fire.

That's a verb, not a noun? So not the same word.

I also don't personally see what's friendly about it, either.