To think that Art is a very important subject?

[malificent7]

I adore Art however i wasn't brave enough to pursue a career in it due to stories of financial insecurity etc..however i do it as a hobby.
I think that it is massively undervalued as most things have been designed and it's a good outlet for creativity. Aibu to think that it's important as it requires skills such as maths, dexterity and problem solving aswell as creativity?

I would get rid of art to introduce economics. The latter is a much important skill to learn.

Saying that art has an important place is society but learning the basics at school is not essential. Learning how to budget and the basics of finance is essentiel and it is an absolute shame that it isn't made compulsory in secondary school.

Art is important because we'd have no brain surgeons or rocket scientists is they didn't have theatres to go to or galleries to visit. They'd all go and work somewhere else.

But it's a niche subject for those who are interested. English, maths and science are far more important. You won't get into art school without basic qualifications in English and Maths. But you can get onto any course without an art qualification.

Not everyone needs to draw, but we all need to be able to read, write and add up.

There was a thread on the education board a few years ago by a poster trying to bash my children's secondary due to the new Head wanting more children to study Art. It totally backfired though!

I am absolutely RUBBISH at it but my children love drawing, writing stories and comics and I have since attended meetings at the secondary where the Head and other members of staff explained how much it counts in university applications and interviews. She also explained that many "good" universities will not take up students who don't have MFL GCSEs or will make them study there.

Also, they don't even have the chance to learn a musical insturment properly. I have known of a girl who had piano lessons during lunch time, they paid termly for that but it was arranged by her private school. It was still cheaper than arranging private lessons by yourself.

@Trillis this is bad! And I was gutted when DS1 had to drop a MFL and "only" keep 1 But they keep teaching them "Philisophy" i.e. Christianity which would be fine if it wasn't the same again and again!

She also explained that many "good" universities will not take up students who don't have MFL GCSEs or will make them study there.

That's misinformation - there is now only one which does this, UCL.

Agree with you :) it’s so good for mental health too.

Thanks, @ErrolTheDragon, but she mentioned Queen Mary's.

@AnxietyDream we were told that you can work in publishing, designing games (even for 12 hours a day and earn a pittance) or 3D modelling, animation in the film industry, TV and that the UK's creative industry is worth billions. So it WAS about real jobs and not the rich.

it’s so good for mental health too

Says who. It's like PE, if you don't like it then having to do it can cause you stress and misery.

I agree it’s important but I think we teach it quite well. There are so many countries where the arts aren’t part of mainstream education at all

I would get rid of art to introduce economics. The latter is a much important skill to learn.

I think art is hugely important for its own sake. But going along with the economic argument, I think the view expressed above is very short sighted. Owing to the decline in manufacturing and the rise of AI, creativity is going to be more highly prized than ever!

Creativity in all its guises is hugely important.

I was rubbish at art at school. I am seeing exactly the same thing happening with my kids. Art the way it is taught round here is painting and drawing in a realistic style. Still life. Portraits. DS was asked last week to look at a Gauguin painting of a beach and create their own. Teacher mixed the paints. Children had to select from those colours. Result was 30 almost identical pictures. No creativity.

Secondary is slightly better in that they are offered ceramics. But no textiles, no photography, no embroidery, or upcycling, or collage, no chance to look at everyday objects and make "art" from them unless you have already demonstrated your excellent ability to draw an apple and copy a painting and have selected to do Art as a subject.

As someone with an economics degree and a level I would say it’s too complex to introduce before then- I assume that’s why it’s not taught, except as a small part of business studies maybe.

@Lifecraft I remember reading in the information given about a doctor (surgeon?) who said that taking up Art for his A-Levels and drawing had helped him immensely in his medical degree as they were both related. There was also another student who had an offer to study medicine at Cambridge who said that playing music helped him connect with audiences and people. But I am guessing he had to learn it privately and not everybody can afford it.

Basically it's not just about studying Art, Music etc. you can still study Engineering and choose a 3rd or 4th A-Level which is completely different but complements the others in ways that others don't understand but could show away at an interview. And if you decide to change careers in the future it could help with the university application.

It is, however some people just aren't artistic and that's fine too. Also the art teachers I came across growing up were some of the meanest, shoutiest, miserable bastards and I don't think that helps encourage children to pursue it.

God my art teachers were horrendous too, peanut exactly as you describe. Made no effort to engage us at all yet couldn’t control the resultant behaviour. I spent most of my gcse admonished to the pottery room and got an E

Thanks, ErrolTheDragon, but she mentioned Queen Mary's.

I don't want to derail the thread, which is about the arts, but they don't mention that as a general requirement on their website and even if it did, a couple of London unis isn't 'many'. The requirement for an MFL in the dim and distant past elsewhere was massively discriminatory against students who might be eg fantastically talented in stem subjects but dyslexic (I had a colleague like this who couldn't apply to Cambridge decades ago, he runs a group at one of their research institutes now).

www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/apply/entry/#d.en.690307

@Passthecherrycoke no idea but a deputy told us similar. Parents complained why the pupils couldn't take up Economics or Economics + ... and he said that it's not needed and even if you want to study Economics all universities want is good Maths! I guess it must be hard to try to teach Introduction to the UK Economy at a lower level

And nobody said that you HAVE to learn Art but it should be taught better or have more combination choices with similar creative subjects and choices. I am rubbish at it and would never have taken up Art but my children love it. I am happy that they can take up Art + Computing + MFL as our local comp doesn't offer them together but their Grammar does.

I doubt that an interest in/knowledge of the arts makes much difference in uni applications/interviews - but surely that's not the point, it's good as an end in itself not a means to an end.

I think it'd be good if schools could cover a broader range of subjects beyond ks3 apart from what will be formally examined.

I agree with him tbh! A good grasp of math is more useful in everyday life. Economics is quite hard to understand at a level even as it’s very hard to simplify or do an “introduction to”

Also I would’ve been far more interested in learning about art rather than Painting my own all the time, I was crap

I'd include in my 'non examined' subjects not economics but 'basic financial nous' type of stuff.

Ruth Churchill Dower from Earlyarts has done a lot of work on arts subjects for young children.

Learning Art and Music - any creative subject - compliments other subjects. Art can help with hand/eye co-ordination, self-expression, science, reading... my music teacher used to say that every child should learn an instrument to teach them the value of regular work: of course, it’s a mathematical subject, too.

@Lifecraft I remember reading in the information given about a doctor (surgeon?) who said that taking up Art for his A-Levels and drawing had helped him immensely in his medical degree as they were both related. There was also another student who had an offer to study medicine at Cambridge who said that playing music helped him connect with audiences and people.

The plural of anecdote isn't data.

To say "art is good for mental health" would need a proper study over thousands of people. There must be loads of kids who dread art, and get very anxious as the lesson approaches.

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve got an A Level in Fine Art and it broadened my knowledge in all sorts of ways- of history, of literature and of society. It’s a hugely important subject that is undervalued by our society.

@Lifecraft it is not a part of anecdota that the UK has a massive creative industry (the DfWP has published the data) and many students who actually LOVE THE SUBJECT (unlike you and me) could benefit from taking it. The choice should be there for people who LOVE it.

Some people like expressing themselves though playing an instrument (I do), others draw or write stories, others release energy by doing sports, walking their dog, volunteering as carers and many other things that I couldn't possibly think of.

Well, of course, YANBU.. art is really important.

But if I'd paid more attention to economics and business studies, I might be a bit better at selling my art.

Approx half my income currently comes from freelance illustration, but art classes in school is not where those skills came from, I am almost entirely self taught (alongside some strong influence of a friend of my parents)...

What stopped me doing this sooner in life (I stopped doing anything arty until about 4 years ago) ... was lack of confidence/self esteem/sense of self worth.

So yeah art is really important, art should be taught the VALUE of an artists work, in terms of time, materials, effort, skill... should be taught..

But giving kids the confidence to express themselves is really, more important and unfortunately I find the traditional school system works very hard to squash kids individuality, independence, expression etc.

floats off moaning about how school crushed her artistic soul