...to think that it might not really be true that the UK average clothes size for women is UK size 16?

[which1]

I just can't help but think that that's not true. That this is the average has been floating around for years I know.

But whilst I do see some people who are size 16 or above, I do not think I see so many as to tip the scales to the extent that 16 becomes the average.

I would say that the average is a UK12.

(I'm not talking about on Mumsnet as the vast majority here are pretty slim and around size 8 average from all the threads that I see either about clothes sizes or posters who mention in passing on a related topic.)

Maybe you can’t, but you also definitely can’t based on the few people you see in your local area!

I think it's around a size 12 uk average ahhh the size 8/10 with huge boobs seen that alot on here

The data probably comes from clothing sold.

Possibly, but as I say unless you take into account all clothing sold, then surely it would make it unreliable.

Regardless of where it comes from - does it matter, in the big scheme of things? Either way it seems odd to just assume it’s all a giant conspiracy..

I can absolutely believe it. I am a 6/8 and the shops are full of the bigger sizes, yet I struggle to find clothes that fit. I don't like being this slim but it's not through choice. I also think shop sizes are getting bigger.

Oh man, people take things way too seriously on here.

No, I don't think it's a conspiracy.

But I am questioning the accuracy.

It's okay to question things that are stated as fact over and over and over yet no-one can say where the data comes from.

Does it matter to me personally? No, it's a matter of curiosity. But you know there are people who this does matter to because people use that given average size as a measure against which to compare themselves and dress size is a sensitive issue for many people.

It seems like such a random statement.. average woman of what age? Because obviously pre children you’re likely to be slimmer, most of the elderly women besides the infirm are 20+ size wise. 50’s are 14-18 but young women 20’s are 6-12. But again we have an ageing population.

I’ve only been a healthy weight between a size 10-12 I was a size 4-6 but I was very ill.. And I don’t mean just on looks. The only time I’ve bought a 16 was at 30+weeks pregnant, when people were asking if it was twins. This could be another issue with fast fashion it was a lot cheaper/easier for me to buy larger sized cheap clothes than find maternity clothes (maternity leggings £20 a pop from the only place locally Primark leggings £2.50). And again if it’s based on volume of clothes bought it won’t take into account people buying clothes intentionally too big (I’ve done this for years to get a T-shirt dress or an intentionally oversized item that would be ££ in a nicer shop but the basic version was available for peanuts)

I also don’t get how vanity sizing has any effect on us.. I wasn’t alive in 1958. Neither was my mother. So while they’ve went up from post war ration sized clothes none of us ever wore those original sizes. Not to mention how prevalent the smoking/skipping meals/working 5 jobs to live type of poverty was back then. And obviously we aren’t comparing the stats to 1950’s stats surely it’s an every 10 year thing at most.

I suppose most people just don’t give it as much thought.

A12? Not a chance

Luna Vanity sizing is allowing people to get generally fatter whilst still being told they are an 8 or a 10 or a 12. At some point it would/will become ridiculous if it carries on the same trajectory. Although you or your mother weren't alive in 1958, it would be the same as if what you consider a size 14 today becomes labelled as an 8 in 20 or 25 years time (or less, the way things are going). Obviously your frame of reference would change. It's likely then that you'd say "An 8? That's ridiculous, it would definitely have been a size 14 back in 2019!"

Also, smoking/skipping meals (also known as fasting these days!) was going on then but equally there were hardly any ready meals, fast food was a Wimpy in the precinct rather than drive-in burgers, there was no food delivery - not even pizza was delivered until 1992 where I lived. So those factors balance out the smoking and skipping meals etc. Also there was "keeping fit/jogging" in the 80s but no running clubs, cycling, gyms etc available as a matter of course like there is now. Gyms were for men. It would have been unusual for an ordinary woman to be a gym member in the 80s (unless a high-end Chelsea type one).

Back then - I don't remember as far back as the 50s because I wasn't around then either but I do remember the 70s and 80s - people just didn't eat all the crap or have access to all the rubbish they do now. Body shaming wasn't a "thing" because it was unusual to be overweight and quite out of the ordinary to be obese. In fact overweight now would be considered obese back then.

I can believe it as I am a size 16 on top. 14 on the bottom and I don't think people realise and think that I must be smaller as I am not that particularly big. Also I have just lost a stone in weight and to be honest apart from a few clothes being a bit more comfortable to wear you can't tell a whole lot of difference so for me to be able to fit into a size 12 for example I would have to be extremely skinny and loose about 3 stone!

I wear a 2 to 10 depending on brand lol!!!!! I’m a slim person not sure why maybe because I am hour glass shaped so certain brands don’t have wide enough hips or big enough bust relative to my waist so I size up to accommodate

I’m in an affluent NY suburb, and people here are generally very thin and quite often ripped a la Madonna. It’s an extension of being successful in life—they also want to be killing it in the exercise area, by doing triathlons, CrossFit, hot yoga, and eating in a very specific manner, such as Paleo, low-carb, vegan etc.

It’s all relative. If we all posted a photo of ourselves and asked to guess our dress size, 9 times out of 10 it would be wrong answer. As long as people were brutally honest and not worried about offending someone.

This isn’t true. Women especially are excellent at guessing weight and size. They may not say it if they think it offensive but aside from that get it right most of the time.

"In my company of ~210 staff there are about 5 people I’d say are bigger than a 12 but maybe only 2 as big as a 16."

Wow. Where do you work?
In one of my old workplaces (civil service, but not the central government type), we had tests by a nurse and over half the staff were overweight, just like the population as a whole. There was a biscuit club and people brought in cakes. I put on weight while I worked there.

Where I work now, almost everyone is thin. I was motivated to go to the gym because I was the only one of my colleagues who didn't. We don't normally have biscuits, but we got some as a gift once and I put some out during a meeting. Only one person eat any.

What you see as the norm definitely has an impact.

" Medically it’s pretty obvious (and backed by more verifiable data) that as a nation we’re getting fatter."

Yep. It's not a matter of opinion.

"I also don’t get how vanity sizing has any effect on us.. I wasn’t alive in 1958."

Were you alive in the 1990s? Because I see quite a big difference from when I was a teenager even. It makes some silly people think they haven't put weight on. Add to that the fact that sizes are bigger in older women's shops anyway and you've got a lot of denial.

"Gyms were for men. It would have been unusual for an ordinary woman to be a gym member in the 80s (unless a high-end Chelsea type one)."

Nowadays you see more women out jogging than men, but it used to be the other way around.
My mum did keep fit in the village hall in the 80s and I did aerobics at the leisure centre in the 90s so these kinds of exercises did exist even if not at 'gyms'.
I also remember my mum 'doing' Lizzie on TVam. That was about 5 minutes of gentle daily exercise. The idea that anyone could become fit with that is ridiculous.

I presumed the size 12 "emaciated" thing was a joke confused
Unless you're 7ft.

Lol!!!! There is no way in hell she looks that thin at a size 12. I think maybe she has body Dysmorphia as it’s nearly impossible... I’m 5’7 and a size 4 and I don’t even look “emaciated”.... I’m 127 and at my lowest weight when I was very poorly was 97. THEN I looked emaciated.

Agree with “what you see as the norm has the most impact” bit!!!! Where I live people are fairly thin and I would feel obese at a 16

I am an 18. Disability and chronic ill health has left me with an unrecognisable body, double the weight and more than in my teens (when I was incredibly thin). I was at center parcs recently. Some women made me feel positively svelt. I can well believe that the vanity size 16 is the average.

Should have added. I have read the sizes have increased because size 14 (I think) was made to be the average size. As the average size of the population increases, so does the average size. Ergo it isn’t a vanity size per se.

If you look at the average BMI for women (say approx 28 across the age groups), which is at the higher end of the 'overweight' category (but not obese), then I think this broadly tallies with a size 16 average.

I am 5'5" and 59kg (9st ?7). BMI 22, wear an 8 or10. I think I really should be average (average height, middle of healthy BMI) and therefore really a 12 (possibly even a 14- I have 26in waist). Actually unless I am either surrounded by professionals or in central London I am far smaller than average.

The data will come from U.K. retailers.

I'd assume it was correct. I was in London and it did occur to me a large percentage of women were visibly overweight. Likely at least half of them.

I think also it's very easy to under estimate someone's size, by physically looking at them.

You only have to look at some of rhe " what size am I " threads on here, where people are guessing size 16 women are a size ten or whatever.