People leaving dogs at home while they are at work

[Sparkles57]

AIBU to find it appalling when people go to work all day and leave their dogs home alone?

I have two and work full time and I spend a small fortune on daycare for them through the week. If I’m out at the weekend I’ll leave them for 5 hours max, any longer and I’ll pay someone to drop in and let them out etc.

I’ve noticed lately from people talking at work it seems to be the norm for people to just leave their dogs in the house when they’re at work! 10 hours alone seems really cruel to me, so I’m really surprised by the blasé attitude a lot of people seem to have to it.

On the other hand, mine are kept downstairs at night so they are on their own for a good 9 hours whilst I’m in bed, so maybe I’m just being a judgey bastard?

We have a dog walker and that is a cost that we were personally prepared to deal with before getting our dog but if our circumstances change and we can’t afford a dog walker, she’ll be home alone. It wouldn’t be ideal and I’m sure she would get bored but I’m not prepared to re-home her because she is a part of our family. I don’t want her to have the issues that come with re-homing a dog because someone thinks it’s cruel that I have to work to pay the bills.

We have sent our dog to daycare occasionally but she doesn’t know when to stop playing so she’s just too shattered if she goes everyday. Our dog has a walk in the morning, a walk at lunch with the dog walker and a walk in the evening. If she misses a walk we will make sure she does some brain work, so retrieving balls, doing scentwork or obedience to check she’s getting enough stimulation. She mostly sleeps in the day. We know this because she’s got a doggy fit bit (we won it, didn’t buy it - we’re obsessed with dog but not quite that much) and it shows how time has been resting vs pottering over the whole day. We see her starting to get restless when the dog walker is due and when we’re due home. But even when I’m already home, she’ll get restless when my husband is due home, I swear dogs can actually tell the time. For the person who commented that this is shifting the care to someone else, of course it is. Like nursery for children. But there are benefits of it too. When our dog is out with the walker, she goes for a pack walk with different dogs and she gets a lot of socialisation that she wouldn’t get otherwise. Going out with walker has taught her that some dogs she can play with and some she just has to walk nicely with. It’s also helped to train her that other people tell her what to do, so anyone can control my dog if it was ever required.

FWIW - we’ve been going to dog training since we got our dog and you can tell those dogs who have someone at home all day. They have separation anxiety. They panic when their owners go out of sight and struggle to do stays. They struggle to do obedience with other owners. My neighbour on one side is home all day and if the neighbour pops out, the dog will bark constantly. My neighbour out on the other side works full time, her dogs will bark if someone walks past the house (which the other dog does too regardless of whether the neighbour is in or not). Obviously you can get separation anxiety with dogs in homes working full time too but it isn’t just reserved for those homes.

It depends on the dog and on your situation. I work from home most days but occasionally have to be out and could be out for up to 8-10 hours. My husband is at home most of the week but works part time and sometimes we're both out at the same time. We live in a smallish town on an estate where we know all of our neighbours and they're all dog lovers. We also have an excellent very reliable dog walker. The dog himself is an ex-racing sloth greyhound who often has to be coaxed out for his booked walk even if he has been alone for several hours. I wouldn't leave him longer than 6 hours without booking a dog walk in advance to break up the time a bit, but there have been a couple of occasions where he has been on his own for 8 hours (e.g. delay in me getting discharged when I had my baby and no one available to help) and he has been absolutely fine with no signs of distress (there's normally flyers and stuff in the hall which he will tear to pieces if there's a thunderstorm or fireworks and he doesn't touch them during a normal day).

We researched quite carefully, though, and we picked both a breed and a dog who would be able to cope on his own for a few hours. My parents had full-on working dogs when I was a kid because my mum kept house - there is no way you could have left those dogs on their own for more than a couple of hours at most. I do get really frustrated by people who are fixated on working or notoriously difficult breeds that are obviously not suitable for their lifestyles and are then surprised that it doesn't work out.

So in our case, (a) the dog is genuinely fine to be left for several hours at a time, but (b) we have lots of people around who can walk or feed him if we're unexpectedly delayed and (c) most of the time for most of the day there will be a human at home with him. So I guess YANBU overall but I do think that some dogs are actually OK with being left on their own for longer than you think.

I absolutely love dogs, but this is exactly the reason why I don't have one (well, and financial!)
I could not leave a dog for the time I am out the house and I live alone.
I would absolutely love the company of a dog, but don't think I'll ever be in a position to have one.
I did sponsor a dog with dogs trust, but had to cancel this cos I'm struggling a little bit financially this year. I've looked into volunteer dog walking in my area, but I'm busy like 15hrs of the day so that hasn't worked out either.
I would love a dog to be rehomed with me, but know my lifestyle doesn't suit a dog.

Another person who got a dog in a country where dogs are routinely left outside for the day, there are guard dogs who just do that and street dogs.
Some dogs are going to be okay with being left, some are going to struggle.
If people can't afford dog care then surely the dog will be happier in their home rather than in rescue kennels.
Working dogs also spend their days in kennels.

I do the same as you with my dog. Daycare and any longer than 4 hours at the weekend he goes to family for the day.

Dog walkers and doggie daycare are a new thing. They certainly weren't around 30 odd years ago when I was a child. Dogs being kept as pets has been happening for a great deal longer than that - what do you think happened then?

Dogs can't tell the time - they don't know how long they've been left. To an anxious dog 5 minutes is as bad as 5 hours, so are you never allowed to leave them, ever?

But it is fine to leave our elderly and vulnerable sat alone in their houses, sometimes not seeing other people for days on end.

The OP, nor anyone else, has said that it is. That's an entirely different thread and bears no connection to the OP's point. I'd be interested in a thread on that subject though if you start one as it's a very valid point - just has no relation to this particular thread.

@Nix32

I think 30 years ago it was far more common for mum to be a SAHM and far less common for both of parents to work FT.

We're dog owners and waited until my husband retired to get one because we feel that they shouldn't be left alone too long. The maximum time we leave her is for about 4 hours to have an evening out, and that's only a couple of times a month.

I think if you're working, a cat is a much better pet. It's what we did when we were both working.

someone thinks it’s cruel that I have to work to pay the bills.

Literally, no one would think that. It's about whether you leave a dog alone for long periods of time, for whatever reason.

@Confusedasnormal
If you halfway understand your dog you know when they are showing signs of stress. You don’t need to measure their cortisol!

Actually, you do - because around half dogs don't show behavioural indicators,e ven when their cortisol levels have increased to anxiety-indicating levels.

Look at this study - only FIVE of the 38 dogs tested did not show additional stress when left alone.
behaviourvet.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/left-home-alone-a-welfare-issue-for-dogs/

How do you know for certain that all dogs are unhappy with being left?

@Reallybadidea - I didn't say ALL dogs. But most are - see the hyperlink to the study, above. And it is known for certain by measuring cortisol levels.

I’ll probably get flamed for this but it depends on the dog.
Dog walkers and dog daycare are both relatively new (last 10 years maybe) and people had dogs and worked before then.
Some dogs are fine to be left all day, happy pottering about the house and playing with toys, others are too highly strung or need more attention.
I agree with Confused. We had dogs when I was growing up and I have had dogs my whole adult life. My parents had full time jobs and so did I.

• We always have at least two dogs so they have companionship.
• They are left with food and water in a heated/AC house that they have the run of.
• There is a dog door to a locked garden with a 6-foot privacy fence.
• The TV is left on tuned to the Nature Channel.

We only ever had ONE dog - a poodle - who was stressed at being alone and we re-homed him. The rest were family and lived with us from puppyhood to old age. A working person can have a dog if it is the right dog and it gets reasonable care.

Obviously if it's a choice between a dog being a stray, in a shelter, euthanised, or being a pet (albeit left alone for large portions of the day) is probably the preferred option. But for plenty, such as my friend, the pup was a pedigree bred for sale. If she hadn't bought the dog someone else would have, potentially someone who didn't need to leave them alone all day.

Dogs can't tell the time - they don't know how long they've been left. To an anxious dog 5 minutes is as bad as 5 hours, so are you never allowed to leave them, ever?

I think that’s a good point - people can preach about not leaving a dog for more than 4 hours, but you can’t comminicate to a dog how long you will be gone for. If you leave the house it could be a 15 minute trip to pick the kids up from school or it could be a 3 and a half hour shopping spree - the dog doesn’t know this when you leave and will miss you/ be bored either way so if it’s an anxious dog (or any dog at all according to some on here) the time frame is completely irrelevant. So depending on the dog, leaving them for ‘no more than 4 hours’ doesnt make you more holy than someone who leaves them for - gasp - 4 hours and 45 minutes. Where has this ‘4 hour rule’ come from by the way? Is it based on some kind of research??

FWIW - we’ve been going to dog training since we got our dog and you can tell those dogs who have someone at home all day. They have separation anxiety. They panic when their owners go out of sight and struggle to do stays. They struggle to do obedience with other owners.

Nonsense.
I wfh, & have a very close bond with my dog.
He prefers not to be left alone, but has accepted a gradual build up. He usually goes to a neighbour if I am going to be out a long time, but can cope with up to 4 hours on his own - this is only occasional.

He does distance stays, stop stays, & has the whole 'good citizen' dog stuff off pat. He does pretty much anything I ask of him, & listens well to other humans.
So having me at home, usually 24/7, does not mean he has separation anxiety.

I'd love a dog and even though I have more days off due to long day shift work I wouldn't get one while I work full time. On days where we are both at work they would be alone from 7:30 till 5. Too long for me. A walker wouldn't be enough and couldn't afford daycare either!

As kids we had dogs but we had more than one and they kept each other company and probably most they were alone was about 6 hours. They had a large garden and an indoor shelter too.

And it is known for certain by measuring cortisol levels

Firstly, as far as I'm aware, the study you linked to wasn't published in a peer-reviewed journal and we don't know what the levels of cortisol actually were, whether they were statistically significant etc etc. It was also a small study and again, afai can see, there was no control group. So I don't think you can definitively say that it is known for certain.

Secondly, the conclusion of that study was not that dogs should not be left alone, but rather:

"It is an important problem, and rather sadly, one that is largely preventable if puppies are given appropriate early experience of being left alone."

‘Doggy daycare’ would literally be my dogs idea of hell. He doesn’t enjoy the company of other dogs and is reactive if forced to socialise. So he has a walk in the morning, a walk at lunch and a walk after work. The rest of the time he hangs out at home following the sun around the house and snoozing.

its cruel for extended periods yes

but not all of us can afford doggy day care? Mine dont get left all day,ever. But I cant afford doggy day care either!

I have to work, so they get left 3/4 hour stretches. Occasionally 6 if i worked late. They are fine

What does ‘doggy day-care’ actually involve? Is it literally like a dog nursery/childminder so you bring them round someone else’s house with lots of other dogs there? (Pretty sure my dog would prefer to stay at home my himself if that’s the case).

Yes that’s right. My dog loves it. They play together and are walked / fed. If you drop early enough and leave for a full day, that could be 2 walks.

More hedonistic inconsequential behaviours- “I want a dog therefore I’ll have one” with minimal thought about whet having a dog is in the dogs best interests.
I don’t think dogs need to be continuously in an adults presence but leaving them for extended periods in a small house or flat are unkind.
If you want a dog, wait until you’ve time and lifestyle to care for it properly.
Ours is on his third and final home because two households before us didn’t give much thought to his needs. A big dog in a little flat with minimal exercise is just unkind.

It's even more unreasonable when they take them to work...

Unless of course they work for Guide Dogs or similar, I am talking about completely unrelated office jobs. But generally animals should not be in offices.