To think relying on working tax credits and housing benefit is a bad idea

[InkedGreen]

My sister has a very decent amount coming in every month - similar to what I have as a professional with 10+ years experience.

However it's all top up earnings and she's on a low paid job two days a week.

She's quite happy to stay on 2 days even though all her children are at school.

Aibu to think she's foolish to rely on these topups and not try to get a better job or increase her hours? If they try to reform benefits she could very quickly be very poor and I'm concerned even if she isn't!

[Twofurrycatsagain]

The short term is precarious as who knows what changes will be made to benefits etc.
The long term is a problem. I've seen the wheels come off for people when their circumstances changed from single parent with benefits and maintenance to being treated as a two adult household.

[Bunglefromrainbow]

Where people are able to go out and make the money but choose instead to take the benefits as it is more convenient, they are really missing a trick.
When the Children leave home do you want 10 years experience on your CV or 10 years of being a SAHM on your CV. One is likely to lead to better job offers as you'll be more experienced.

There will come a time that these decisions are regretted I'm sure.

For those who have no choice then it's great that they can rely on benefits at the moment, but as you say, it's not forced to last forever.

[mindproject]

I'm a single parent, I work part-time hours and don't claim any benefits.

It's not benefits that make me want to work less hours; it's work. If I worked somewhere where bullying, low pay and ridiculous targets weren't a thing, then I'd probably want to work more. As it is, I'll continue working as little as possible. It's more important for me to enjoy life, than to have money to buy things I don't need.

[arethereanyleftatall]

In the 'olden days' people's attitudes were very diffferent to benefits. My grandfather was very proud of the fact he didn't ever receive any, my great grandma proud as punch that she was the only one in the care home paying for herself. It isn't like that any more. Which is a good and a bad thing. A good thing that those who genuinely can't work don't feel guilt, and a bad thing that some able bodied people have no guilt whatsoever to sit around neither looking after children nor working.

[DungeonDweller]

Tbh I have very little sympathy in these situations. Where a lot of my family are working long hours in stressful jobs and have worked hard to qualify in their roles.. yet barely seeing their own children midweek because of the hours and commutes.. just to pay basic housing & childcare & council tax bills... The idea of getting to pick up your kids most days after school, is alien (even if finished work by then, who lives that close to work in a decent job with prospects?! No one I know!). It's extremely depressing to be on that rat run yet have no real other option.

So people doing their 16hrs a week no stress local job getting harder done by.... Who cares! Instead of being grateful they've had the support for so long.. we say ooh poor them, having to go on UC?!

[ReanimatedSGB]

The trouble is, childcare costs an awful lot and, while DC are at primary school, you need to be paying for anything up to 4 hours a day per child. There's also the matter of finding jobs which will allow you time off at short notice when a child gets a stomach bug or a fever and can't go to school or childcare, ir if your kid has as-yet-undiagnosed SEN and keeps getting excluded... and all the other barriers to work.

Throw in the fact that many jobs are not only badly paid and insecure but inherently pointless, and (unless you are smug, stupid and vicious) you should be able to understand why a lot of mothers don't work full-time, and why we should, actually, introduce Universal Basic Income. We could partly pay for it by scrapping all the meddling 'assessors' (it is a matter of record that the government has spent vast sums of money, not just on hiring for-profit companies to operate Universal Credit, but on fighting lawsuit after lawsuit from peole who they have wrongly sanctioned. Or the relatives of those people who have died because of UC sanctions and errors.) And by enforcing tax collections properly, of course.

[arethereanyleftatall]

The thing is with the 'looking good on your cv' or 'not climbing the ladder' type arguments, is that's all correct if you have qualifications and an actual career where you can progress; but presumably irrelevant if you're on the check out on Tesco's. I may be wrong but I don't think somebody would be turned away from working in McDonald's because there's a gap in their cv from 2007 to 2012.

[Surfskatefamily]

I'dspend the home with my child as long as possible. She probably has to budget just like the rest of low earning families. Personally id rather get top ups and be there fof my kid after school than get help with childcare costs and not be. It's swings and roundabouts.
Get angrier at tax evaders as they cost the general public far more

[AsTheWorldTurns]

Throw in the fact that many jobs are not only badly paid and insecure but inherently pointless, and (unless you are smug, stupid and vicious) you should be able to understand why a lot of mothers don't work full-time

Can you give an example of a job that is pointless?

[mindproject]

I don't think people care if there are gaps in CVs. Most people will get hired because the person interviewing decides they'll get along with you.

[MarieG10]

I don't know what the answer is to it. We have a benefits culture but then what is the answer to lift people out of poverty?

We have a number of lone parents for example where I work. Relatively low skill levels when joining but have developed and gained experience to the point that two got promoted. They took the promotions and then immediately applied to reduce their working hours. The reason being that they were losing benefits and it basically wasn't worth having the extra money.

I don't know the financials of it and family credit etc but such a system that encourages this is clearly flawed

[Gingerkittykat]

Once she is moved onto universal credit it is likely she will be significantly worse off than claiming tax credits. It is far less generous in term of top ups to those who work part time with those working full time likely to be better off.

[DoctorAllcome]

She can cross that bridge if/when it happens. In work benefits can get cut, or not. Just like you could get fired tomorrow, or not. It’s unreasonable to expect your sister to make her life bombshell proof because in reality no one’s life is bombshell proof.

[Waxonwaxoff0]

I work 20 hours a week school hours (single parent) and receive WTC and a small amount of housing benefit.

I'm really not interested in anyone's opinion on it. I don't earn enough to make going full time financially worthwhile as then I would end up paying for before and after school childcare. As things are now I can do all school runs.

I work hard for lovely employers who want me to have a future at their company and are very flexible around me. I intend to go full time when DS is old enough to let himself in after school and be alone for a couple of hours.

When I get moved over to UC I will review my options and see then whether I'll be better or worse off going full time.

[Chips4dinneragain]

astheworldturns

www.theguardian.com/money/2018/may/04/i-had-to-guard-an-empty-room-the-rise-of-the-pointless-job

[DungeonDweller]

Waxonwaxoff0 can you see how your choice to work 20hrs a week might offend someone like me, who put in years of effort at university & postgraduate to qualify... And doesn't have the choice, financially, to spend years taking and picking up kids from school?

You have a choice that I don't. And yours is fuelled by benefits!

[AsTheWorldTurns]

Thanks for the opinion piece (not everyone thinks that a doorman or soldier is a pointless job, obviously).

[Waxonwaxoff0]

I work PT school hours (single parent) and receive WTC and a small amount of housing benefit.

I'm not really interested in what people think about it to be honest. I don't earn enough to make going full time worthwhile as then I'd have to pay for before and after school childcare. As it is right now I can do all the school runs. As for a moral point of view - well, morals don't pay the bills unfortunately.

What happens when I get moved over to UC is for me to worry about. I'll reassess my situation when that happens.

I do work hard for lovely employers who want me to have a future at their company and they have been very flexible around me so I have potential to progress there when I'm ready to.

[Waxonwaxoff0]

DungeonDweller not really, no. Because you likely have more earning potential than I'll ever have as I didn't go to university. I don't own a home or have much of a pension. I'm not saying that for pity, those are choices I made but I don't see how my situation would be enviable to anyone!

[Letsgowalking]

Gobsmacked at the PP who said the aim of the ‘game’ is to pay as little tax as possible. How do they suppose their tax credits, healthcare, etc are funded? Surely if you’re paying in the absolutely minimum by choice you should not be expecting to receive anything back...

[yourestandingonmyneck]

None of your business. I’ll pick my children up from school for as long as I can.

😩 I hate this attitude.

[Onacleardayyoucansee]

Everyone is going to migrate to UC by 2023 iirc, so your dsis will have to present a job search for however many hours under 38 she is working.
The work coach will give her jobs she must apply for or she will be sanctioned.
Hopefully she will be free of the system by the time this happens.

With the managed migration no one will be worse off financially but as soon as you have a change in circs they will put you on the punitive UC rules.

Even if you work full time they are utter bastards and suck every penny from you to keep you at benefit income level.
bitter My experience.

[ReanimatedSGB]

Many low-value jobs (ie those for which qualifications are not required) are not so much bullshit in themselves - they often involve the completion of important tasks such as cleaning things/people. or preparing and serving food - they are just atrociously paid and often involve unreasonable demands and bullying from superiors. But the bullshit jobs as described in that article certainly exist and are really damaging. Again, there is a big problem with the idea that 'work' (ie being an employees) is inherently a Good Thing. It's routinely peddled by people who don't have to worry about paying the bills and probably haven't ever had an actual job themselves. And then parroted by the stupid to further the propaganda against poor people.

[MouseInATelescope]

My ex walked out and left me with 2 little boys and no income. He was abusive. He doesn't give a crap about his kids. He has been promoted and earns a ton and gives us nothing. He's going abroad soon and paying for his new partner to go with him.

Youngest has just turned 3 and started Nursery 2.5 days a week. I have that time to myself at the moment (I spend a lot of it by myself doing all the housework crying) as finding a job around pick ups/drop offs which are 2 miles away ON FOOT (can't afford a car!!)is flipping bloody impossible. It really really honestly hand on heart is impossible. Next year when youngest is in Reception I can start my life, hopefully, if I can deal with all the holidays and still get them to school/pick them up. I hate my ex for what he's done to us.

I would swap my life for a full time job/adult company/kids in full time school right now in a heartbeat because I promise you this is absolutely hell and I feel like scum.

[RandomMess]

It's a bad idea mainly because when the DC hit 16/18 the financial support disappears and she will be left with little experience and potentially in poverty...