To think about leaving my DH because I had a lovely day without him without the kids.

[theClasher]

Today I took the kids out all day. I switched my phone off as I didn't want any disturbances and we had a lovely time. The kids had so much fun. But the thing that I really noticed the most was that I actually felt happy, calm and relaxed. The kids weren't getting told off my DH and I wasn't feeling stressed trying to get the kids to "behave" so dh wouldn't get angry. I also wasn't snappy with the kids as a result and I wasn't looking at other couples chatting and laughing thinking why can't I have that with my DH.

I've walked in and dh hasn't said a word to me about my day or even acknowledged me. I've only been upstairs 10 minutes and he's already told one of the kids off for something.

AIBU to rethink my marriage?

[Cuppaand2biscuits]

I take the kids out a lot without DH and generally we have a much nicer day. With mine I find he's always on a countdown to getting home again so I never feel like we can relax and enjoy the day.

[Disfordarkchocolate]

One of the reasons I left was because I didn't want the children to think this was a good model for marriage.

[minibroncs]

Do you have an Employee Assistance Scheme you could use? Otherwise you can self refer for 6-8 sessions of counselling through the NHS. Ask your GP for the details or google the IAPT service for your area.

As far as being scared, that's natural. Change and the Unknown is always scary. Fear often shrinks once we take control.

Some of that fear can be addressed by planning and researching - so financially, drawing up a budget, looking at how your entitlements and costs may change.

In terms of the children, change is unsettling for them too. One of the most important things you can do is explicitly reassure them that it is absolutely not their fault and that you won't leave them or stop loving them. It makes an important difference.

But when you're worrying about the impact on them I would really encourage you to weigh up the impact of living like this with a parent who makes them feel unlovable and that nothing they ever do is good enough vs an adjustment period with support from you followed by a healthier, happier home environment where they can grow up feeling secure and loved and good enough.

That is also something you can do practical planning and research about to give you more of a feeling of control against the fear. If you understand the impact of his behaviour and this environment - and by that I mean his emotional neglect and developmental trauma - it will help your decision and how you manage things. It will give you tools so you can take charge.

"Conflict of interest" declaration here - I've been the child with a parent who treated me like that, and it was destructive well into adulthood. I spent my childhood desperately trying to be well enough behaved, perfect enough, interesting enough, good enough for him to love me and feeling constantly rejected because nothing I could do no matter how hard I tried elicited any interest or praise, just criticism. I blamed myself.

Don't forget children don't understand the world the way adults do. They don't have the perspective you do, so they will interpret things that happen as being their fault.

You know your situation better than me, so it's for you to evaluate, not me. And like I said before, you can take some time to come to terms before you decide to do anything.

[wlucy]

Yanbu - this is why I ended my relationship. Being a single calm parent that is actually appreciative of effort and days out etc is so much easier than being in a couple full of resentment and having to do even more work keeping everyone upbeat etc.
It's definitely something to think about it my opinion. Ask yourself who is your priority? Your kids and yourself or your dh? Life is too short x

[pumpkinpie01]

@Oblomov19 in my case I was determined to keep the house so I borrowed money on the mortgage to buy him out . He moved in with a friend for a while ( didn't have dc overnight didn't seem bothered about spending much time with them ) then when he got his money from the house used some of that as a deposit. My wages paid the bills and mortgage and I lived off tax credits. Obviously everyone's circumstances are different and it is a daunting time.

[icecreamsundae32]

Fun sponge - what a great analogy, def going to use that!

I often find days out just me and the children or a friend and her children more fun and less stressful as we go at our own pace. My dh is very stressy/anxious always worrying what other people think if our kids aren't perfectly dressed and perfectly behaved etc - he is getting better tho as he gets older he is mellowing! He always wants to leave the house at a set time and will moan if we are even 5 mins late getting in the car (yet he only gets himself ready, I'm getting myself, supervising children and getting a toddler ready, plus packing the spare clothes, nappies and lunches!!) and then he wants to leave the place by a set time to avoid the traffic etc so he will only let the kids have 10 mins in playground "we came to the zoo to see the animals not go on some slides" I have to now say to him before we go - the children will be playing in the play area they want to let off some steam etc and we are not leaving early!

However, in day to day life my husband doesn't ignore me when I come in and not talk at the table so I think you need to dig deeper and find out what's going on there...sounds like he's not happy with his current life and you and the kids are stopping him doing what he wants so he's taking his frustrations out on you and them with the shouting over every little thing. It is draining being on egg shells all the time and it then makes you snappy trying to make everything perfect to keep him happy x

[PeriComoToes]

Oh furious what a bastard. Well done for getting you and your son away.

OP he's not a nice man is he? Who the fuck brings the laptop to the breakfast table - how rude! He ignores you and your children unless it's to tell you off/be mean. My relationship isn't perfect (who's is) but his behaviour is awful.

[Midlandsmum1]

Hi op I've posted about this situation before under a different name, and I got flamed because I called my husband a fun sponge. He sounds exactly the same as your partner. People told me that not everyone likes larking about and being funny and playing with the kids etc. TRY LIVING WITH IT!!!
Yes I chose this man as my partner almost 20 years ago but he wasn't like this until we had children. He is just a really crap parent. He provides for us financially and he thinks that's enough. I don't feel like I can leave because I don't want to be apart from my kids and lose the family home etc. Selfish yes. But we just make the best of things. He's hardly here as always working.i tried for years begging him to come out with us etc and then it would always be a rubbish day. The kids and I do most things on our own now which is lovely. If he doesn't ask us about it, fine. I've told him many times, when the kids are grown they won't have any nice memories of him.

[Antonin]

OP before I made the first practical steps towards separating I went through a period of knowing “ it was not if but when” Live with this thought in mind fo a bit. Then get your ducks in a row re separation. Maybe get counselling for yourself to clear your thoughts, feel stronger etc, look at the advantages for your DC.
Your DC will sadly be absorbing the idea that they are a nuisance, can’t do anything right and not worthy of their father’s full attention and love. This will affect their self confidence and future relationships.
The old belief that staying together is best for the children is a myth when to do so is actively harmful.
Sadly your DH has had many opportunities to change but is too self absorbed to be bothered to make a consistent effort to parent positively which includes respecting their DM and showing her affection

[theClasher]

Midlandsmum1 I totally get it. I'm not even a super chatty sort of person, I'm quite reserved and shy but with my friends and family I love talking to them and chatting and having a laugh. Of course it's not constant but it helps with your mood and overall health. I'm exactly the same about leaving. I am a low earner PT and don't know how I could afford a mortgage/ rent. I would be so skint and worry if I would be making my kids lives miserable by bringing them up in poverty.

I love the word fun sponge too!

[theClasher]

Antonin can I ask how long it was before you left after you knew you wanted to.

[lemonyellowtangerine]

The old belief that staying together is best for the children is a myth when to do so is actively harmful.

Yes.

Op, have you used a benefits calculator to see what you would be entitled to on your own wage?

Less affluent than now and living in poverty aren't the same.

[Yeahnahmum]

Too feel lonely in a marriage
That sounds sooo sad.
To live with the man you discribe.. is not a life
Not a life for you, nor your kids

I would tell him
"This is how i feel
And this needs to change or i see no more future for us"
See what he does (or doesn't do)

[JoxerGoesToStuttgart]

I think you’ve had your realisation OP.

Just know that if you separate, he won’t be an involved parent. He’ll probably shout about taking the DC 50/50 but in reality he’ll barely take them EOW. I know his type. He doesn’t want to be a parent.

[theClasher]

JoxerGoesToStuttgart gosh I really would be shocked if he didn't want the kids 50/50. I mean we'd have to work something out but if he didn't want them half the time xthen I would honestly feel distraught for my children.

[theClasher]

Yeahnahmum the thing about saying to him I would like x,y,z to happen etc. I think he might change for a while and then slowly before I even realise things will have gone back to the way they were.

My head is so confused. Its partly my fault. What's wrong with me.

[Antonin]

I think it was between 18 to 24 months. Possibly unlike you I was fearful of my ex’s reaction so had to leave one day whilst he was at work. Had a lot of the DCs stuff and my stuff stored at friends places beforehand so only the more noticeable stuff to move on the day.
I was apprehensive about how I’d cope by myself but in the end knew the situation was killing me inside and felt ( maybe unrealistically) I’d get cancerfromwhat it was doing to me.

[Wallywobbles]

Hères a plan of action.

In fact 2.



1 find the best divorce lawyer that you like. Also get recommendations for a really good counselor, find out waiting times. Possibly book an appointment. prepare quietly for divorce. Don't have to do it but proceed as is. When this plan is firmly in place go for plan 2.

Plan 2. Tell him you are unhappy and why. Let him come up with some solutions. Say counseling is booked for this date. But at least you'll know what future 1 will look like more or less.

[JoxerGoesToStuttgart]

gosh I really would be shocked if he didn't want the kids 50/50.

But he doesn’t seem to like them.

[Notcool1984]

I was in a similar marriage and I ended it three years ago. Honestly, pure bliss without an angry cloud shouting at me and the kids x

[Strangerthanstrange]

Problem is that if he does want the kids they will feel like they have to spend time with him, including some whole weekends and he will likely be just the same but they will have only him.

[Motoko]

Why would you be shocked if he didn't want them 50/50? Look how he behaves towards them now. You'll be lucky if he has them every other weekend, and 1 night midweek (which is the usual arrangement). Plus, I can't imagine your children would want to spend that time with him, if all he ever does is shout at them.

I don't mean this as an insult, but you sound very naive. I suggest you have a read of the threads in the Relationships part of the forums. These men often threaten their wives/partners with taking them to court to get custody of the children, but it's all bullshit. They're just using it as a threat to keep the woman too frightened to leave, because they don't want to have to live on their own, doing their own washing, cooking, cleaning etc. When the women leave, it's actually the other way round, it's them who have to take their exes to court, to get them to have the children at all, and pay maintenance.

Go and see a solicitor to find out what's involved, and what you will be entitled to in a divorce settlement. Often, you would stay in the house, until the youngest child reaches 18.

Log on to the entitled 2 website to find out what benefits you will be able to claim, and roughly how much you'd get.

Look at the bills, to see how much they cost each month. (As a single person, you would get 25% discount on council tax.)

Start putting some money away if you can. Save £2 coins (they add up surprisingly quickly), get cashback at the supermarket, do some surveys with survey sites that pay you. They don't pay a lot, but every little bit helps. (Check Moneysavingexpert.com for the best survey sites.)

If you do all these, you will feel more empowered, because you've taken away some of the unknown that you're frightened about, and you'll have some funds behind you.

It's really not good for your children, or you, to be living in this toxic environment. It affects self esteem, and children are very vulnerable to this.

It really is worth it. That feeling of happiness, relief, etc, will be every day. You'll no longer feel your heart sink when you hear his key in the lock, nor walk on eggshells around him, to try not to set him off.
I remember that feeling well, and the feeling of relief when we split.

I wish you all the best.

[TheVoiceInTheShed]

Your earlier post about you putting all the effort into the children could have been written by me years ago, I didn't end it until they were grown up and old enough to tell me enough was enough and I should end it
The spoiling of numerous holidays should have highlighted to me how bad my ex's behaviour was in general but I was burying my head in the sand for a long long time, always hoping things would improve, not wanting to face the sheer disruption splitting up would bring. But in doing so, I became used to not being important in my own right, there truly is nothing as lonely as being in a marriage like mine was (and yours is)
Even if you confront this with him, I think you are right and any improvement will slide back. He will never change as he is essentially the most important person in his world, it's certainly not you or the DC's
I know splitting up seems like the impossible task but you can do it, start with taking the first step and then steel yourself and plough on until you get the life you deserve - it can be done I promise, I wish you strength and luck.

[AngryFeminist]

As the child of this kind of marriage, I really empathise and strongly urge you to leave. The years of eggshell-walking, being ignored, treated as a nuisance and told I had ruined the day/holiday/whatever by (for example) asking for some orange juice instead of water, led to a completely fucked up sense of self. It made me an approval, love and affection-seeking missile for unavailable, dictatorial men while also fearing and resenting them. This led to exactly the kind of awful romantic relationships you are probably imagining.

However, the real sting for me was realising my mum's complicity. She was and is a victim in this, but it was her quietly calming and commiserating with me out of earshot with the sole outcome of me putting my face back on so he would stop being inconvenienced. It was about her and me being 'in it together' versus this scary man - she would help me survive it but never challenge him or his behaviour. Not once did she step in to protect me and not once did I see the example of a partnership in which both partners' needs and preferences were validated (or specifically, where a man would actively want his female partner to be happy over and above him getting to do what he wanted). I learnt that women and children had things done to them by men; that we were not agents in our own right. This also had the kind of consequences ypu can imagine. It sometimes steikes me that, if I'd been a boy, this would have been my example for how to treat women and my own kids.

I love my mum so much but her decision to stay had a huge impact on me and although I hate how she is still treated, it's driven a wedge between us because I no longer accept his behaviour. We deserved better, so do you and your kids.

[theClasher]

Just an update. I've spoken to him about how I feel. He agrees that he's not been proactive with his parenting and he needs to do more but feels like I'm being unfair when I mentioned that he doesnt talk to me.

He ultimately doesn't want to separate and is willing to change but I'm not sure it'll be long term. I explained to him that I think we are on different pages with regards to parenting and a few other issues too. Hed have to change as a person and that's not going to happen.