To wonder if it's worth going to university?

[SirJamesTalbotAndHisSpeculum]

I think a lot of people think that going to university is the be-all and end-all of life.

In fact, having a degree doesn't always mean that you're more likely to find employment. It also means that you start off life with a huge debt.

What do others think? AIBU to say that there are many other routes into employment?

puff that's less important than you would think. Close to 70% of graduate jobs don't ask for a specific degree subject meaning there can be benefits in going to study a subject you enjoy and are good at. The big difference is how an individual engages with university.

Lots of the big graduate recruiters like some of the more traditional subjects because of the skills they develop. For example, some of the big accountancy firms specifically target history graduates.

The richest people I know are not graduates - they’re people who learned a trade as apprentices then set up their own businesses. So if money is your long term goal, uni may not be the best bet.
I spent five years studying medicine, and 36 years slogging away as a hospital doctor in the NHS, working 100 hour weeks as a junior. I have one unpretentious house in a village. My hairdresser, on the other hand, has a bigger house, and owns two holiday villas in Florida! Even my plumber has two houses, and the window cleaner is away several times a year on long haul luxury holidays.
I don’t begrudge them at all, but I’d tell youngsters today to think twice about taking on £30K plus of student debt unless they need the degree for a specific vocation.

My son has just got the grades to go to the Uni of his choice. My dd is at the moment adamant that she will try to get a higher apprenticeship after sixth form.

My two closest friends both worked their way up from 18 and earn more than me.
I know a few self made men who left school at 16 and have done very well.
I know a 21 year old who did a council apprenticeship straight from school and is now already on 28K.

I was lucky I had no debt and wouldn't swap an amazing experience but that was 30 plus years ago. I believe without a specific degree and training to know exactly what you want to do many would be better off not going to uni.

The richest people I know are in the City, babdoc, or senior in corporates, and the large majority do have degrees, often multiple. So it depends on your milieu a bit Obviously some people with few or no qualifications go on to be very successful i-bankers or CEOs but increasingly they are expected to earn a degree along the way if they didn't start with one.

I think the first thing you need to decide is what sort of job/career you want.

Once you know you can then look at routes into the job and whether university is needed. Some jobs (e.g. doctor) need it. Other jobs do not or have alternative routes into employment, so you could go to university or work and study part time.

If a job does not specifically need a degree then I would not have done university again. One issue these days though is that so many people were going to university and applying for hobs that jobs which have no need for a degree can be advertised as needing one as they can have their pick.

As degrees have become increasingly commonplace in the last 10 - 15 years lots of bog standard jobs now ask for them.

Which I suppose isn't surprising if the pass rate for A level Maths is 54%; clearly something is very wonky in education and its relationship to the world of work.

I would go again because I have a graduate level job, I didn't have to pay fees and I received a maintenance grant.

Now I am not so sure. 30K odd debt in fees - and yes it is a debt because it affects affordability if you want to get a mortgage.

think if your kid hasn't much of a clue what to do after leaving school, but enjoyed a certain subject, a degree is a few years for them to grow up and figure things out a bit more

Think.this is the worst advice in the world..

Sending them to run up £50,000 worth of debt, that more than likely, they will have hanging round their neck for the next 30 years just because you want them to grow up is a ridiculously high price to pay.

Only a small minority will ever earn enough for long enough to pay off, this debt. I think it is about 17%.

As for having to have a degree for some jobs. That also is BS.

Dd has a couple of jobs that say you need a degree to do.

She actually trains people in one job who have spent the previous 5 years studying A levels then getting a degree to do the job dd does.

If your children don't know what they want to do then help them figure it out. There are numerous careers tests to do on line and narrow it down from there by looking at jobs in detail

Or they get a job, any job. Then another job and another till they get inspiration on what they want to do.

Yes of course there are other routes into employment ie apprenticeships, working your way up the career ladder through general employment within a company, self employed business start ups and entrepreneurs, uniformed services such as police or HM Forces etc.

There are also a few sponsored degrees for specific industries which reduce the finance that students borrow.

University is not the be all and end all but many subject areas that were studied historically in specific colleges or polytechnics have evolved and have now become integrated into universities as a degree level course ie Nursing now requires more specific medical knowledge and Art has become more diverse and has introduced more digital and academic elements.

There are now less manufacturing companies in many geographical areas so young adults wanting to enter areas such as mechanical engineering may find themselves unable to secure an apprenticeship in their chosen sector so follow the university route into this career. Automation has also reduced the need for some industries to employ as many entry level apprentices so students may prefer to enter the industry at graduate level.

There are some jobs in the growing tech sector that did not exist in the past and a degree may be required as computer scientists are needed in the digital age and are required in nearly every industry today.

If you want a career in professions such as doctors, dentists, vet med, architects etc then there is no option but to do a degree.

It is a lot of "debt" to get into but due to the way the repayments are structured it is often viewed as a graduate tax for people earning over a specific salary.

I would have thought that most if not all careers enabling you to earn above average will require a degree. There are exceptions but very much in the minority and I also agree with Xenia.

I know someone who got a degree in equine studies which is completely useless unless you intend to work with horses. She didn't and now does clerical work. That is surely a total waste of money but no doubt she would say, as she is horse mad, that the main thing is that she enjoyed every minute.

ducation is important in creating a civilised society, so university is very important. And the courses that people are snobby about (such as media studies etc) can be just as good at developing students' critical thinking as more traditional subjects.
Unlike marketing or some such business shit, which should be the real focus of disdain, if you need one.

A million times this ^. The anti-intellectual, anti-critical thinking turn this country has taken in recent years makes me despair.

@Xenia

Whilst I agree that not everyone ends up with a huge debt to pay off, there are also many parents who are unable to fund their DC through university.

Those DC do start off with a debt.

CmdrCressidaDuck, only 54% of graduates are actually in graduate level employment six months after leaving uni.
Agreed, those in corporate city jobs will be making mega bucks, but they are a small minority. Most of the kids who are doubtful about going to uni at all, and lack a well connected daddy with friends offering internships, are unlikely to be in that “milieu” either.

Whilst a degree might be worth while if you know what you want to do and it requires a degree in a certain subject and there is no other route.
Like a Doctor, Solicitor etc

Going to university just because you don't know what you want to do is a waste of time and money.

All those thinking that a degree will get you a better paid job need to look at the statistics.

Only 17 out of every 100 people who go to university will earn more than £21,000 per year for enough years to pay back their student loan.

Two of my four DC have degrees and neither of them works in a related field.

They have a lot of money to pay back now. DH and I could not afford to pay their fees etc.

I know they enjoyed the experience though.

Well, to get my job I needed a doctorate, and for that I needed a degree, so it was kind of essential! However, DH regrets his degree as it was a bit pointless for his career, and as he lived at home he didn't get the uni experience either!

When the time comes for my DC, I'll sit down with them and we'll think of the pros, cons and alternatives and they can make their minds up after thinking through..

It doesn't matter about the debt because you don't pay it back till you're earning over the threshold anyway and even then only a very small percent. And I don't think it affects assessment for a mortgage that much, it didn't for me or for any of my friends who went to uni; they all managed to get mortgages (those that bought that is). So I wouldn't say the debt alone is reason enough not to go.

I do agree there's no point going if the DC isn't really enthusiastic about the subject/the uni etc. I met a few at uni who were just there because their DPs had pushed them into it; some ended up dropping out or came out with a poor result. So in those cases, yes I'd agree it was a waste of time because they didn't make the most of the experience.

Sirjames, but you must agree it is not a debt in the traditioal sense surely? You don't pay a penny back unless you earn over £25k so for many it is a massive gift from tax payers like I am to students who never earn much. For those who do many will not pay much back. If you earn £30k a year you pay 9% x £5k = £450 a year or £8,65 a week back.

Olivers it's my job to look at those statistics. You are more likely to earn more with a degree and even more with a post grad. It does vary between sectors obviously but overall that's what the statistics show.

It's not necessarily a bad thing to not look know specifically what career you want as many top graduate recruiters will recruit from a wide range of subjects and some specifically target the more traditional, non-vocational courses.

You're not being unreasonable. But ..... it's still worth going.

I'm quite old. I'm earning minimum wage and don't have a degree. In order to support myself when the children leave school I had to get some decent qualifications, so I'm about to start my second year of my environmental health degree. I will have a profession at the end of it.

It's not a debt in the traditional sense but it is 9% of salary (and that's just the fees, I assume it's more if you have the maintenance loan too). And it does absolutely affect affordability because that is coming off your salary before you can think about mortgage repayments. Of course, if you earn £40k with a degree compared with £20K without one, you will still be (a lot) better off. And in many cases a well paid job with higher status also allows for better working conditions too. But I wouldn't rush to push my son down the uni route if he wasn't sure, and I think degree apprenticeships are a very good options and hope that there will be more of them.

If you’re doing an IT/Accounting degree absolutely

If you’re doing a history/English type degree don’t bother

I started a uni course in my 40's, got promoted twice in 12 months and went up 5 pay grades, PURELY because I went to uni. I could have done this job standing on my head without it, but that was the requirement so I went and got it.

I agree uni isn't the only route, but a high standard of education will kick open doors regardless in most professional areas.

I don't have a degree and earn significantly more than my friends who do. My career has flourished through interpersonal skills rather than knowledge