Child-free friend excluded from new WhatsApp group 'for her own good'

[Eastie77]

I am in a Whatsapp group with a group of friends, one of whom has just given birth. There is one friend in the group, 'Jill', who does not have children. Everyone else has at least one.

Today another one of my friends created a new Whatsapp group and has invited everyone except for Jill. She has posted an intro message stating that she thinks it's a good idea to have this seperate group for any child related discusions because she is conscious that at times the other one becomes overloaded with baby/child conversations which must be annoying for Jill. The recent chat about the new baby was apparently prime example as everyone (understandbly) talked about it 'for several days'. She added that with school starting up again soon she remembered last year everyone posted pictures of their kids first day etc and so please can we avoid doing that in the main chat and keep it to the child chat group.

I do not know if Jill is childfree by choice or not. I am almost certain that she would be hurt if she discovered we were sharing all our children's pictures, updates etc in another group and completely excluding her so I exited the group. Before do so I asked my friend if
Jill had said anything to her about feeling upset/sidelined by the child related chat and she said no but I should put myself in Jill's shoes and imagine how she feels when there is an endless conversation about the merits of Calpol or formula.

I'm fine not to put up pictures of my DC's first day at school but I'm not planning to avoid mentioning them at all in the main chat. I'm not rejoining the new group. Is this really unreasonable?

[Thirtyysomething]

My friends have a separate ‘mums’ group, they are all on maternity leave or SAMP so it makes sense as they are meeting up in the week when the rest of us with older or no children are at work.

That said, it’s not just one person excluded from the group so I suppose your friend will feel excluded in this particular situation.

[Leighhalfpennysthigh]

I can forsee the main chat going more and more quiet full stop and Jill being left out. It’s not nice

This is very much the danger with this type of situation. Every childless woman has had this happen even in real life or in social media. It is just another example of "othering" us that we encounter frequently. Along with

-we won't understand as we don't have kids
-we'll get it one day when we do (tell that to my knackered ovaries)
-we are living this mad hedonistic lifestyles and always on the piss/on holiday
-we're selfish
-we're immature
-we don't understand responsibility

[RedPanda2]

I'm childfree and actually think this is a good idea. I'm happy for my friends with kids but I don't want to hear about them constantly or have endless photos

[StillCoughingandLaughing]

A better thing to do would have been for your friend to announce on the main group that she was starting a new group for child related chat and to let her know who wants to join. That way Jill is free to join if she wants and it's not a secret groups she's been excluded from.

This would have been the best solution. It’s all very well saying ‘Just ask Jill!’, but be honest - how many of us would say ‘Oh no, of course I don’t mind hearing about little Johnny and Katie!’, even if we were really thinking ‘Well actually, if I hear one more word about your child’s sniffles I’ll come
Round and pour concrete in their nostrils’?

Had the OP’s friend announced she was setting up the group, Jill could just have not joined - no secrecy, and no worries on her side that the others would take offence.

[SavingSpaces2019]

This doesn't sound like the behaviour of a friend.
It sounds more like pushing someone out of the friendship group by stealth - disguised as 'concern'.
A very underhand way of creating cliques within a group surreptitiously.

Jill hasn't confided in anyone that there IS a problem with the kid-chat/pics.
I'm sure Jill also knows how to ignore/mute conversations that she doesn't wish to participate in.
I'm even more sure Jill is smart enough to realise when the kid-talk completely dries up.....and the correlation between that 'silence' and reduced activity within the Whatsapp group.....over time it will become blatantly obvious that others are talking/meeting/making decisions together and only Jill is the odd one out and not included/part of what used to be very normal interactions and ways of doing things.

[AlmostAJillSandwich]

I'm childfree by choice, but would appreciate the child stuff in a separate chat.
Just try to mind you don't idly continue all chat in there by accident.

[onanothertrain]

I can see both sides, why dont you ask Jill? If your whole group chat is so child focused she's probably bored out her tits. I'd definitely tell her you were doing it though

[wildcherries]

This is so patronising. Good on you for not engaging.

[onanothertrain]

leighhalfpenny you missed out that we don't know what tiredness is

[wildcherries]

Leighhalfpennysthigh agreed. I've lost friendships on this account.

[brassbrass]

why dont you ask Jill?

This is still incredibly othering.

Oh Jill we've been discussing you behind your back and wondered if you would like us all to move en masse to another group (oh too late we already did secretly) to talk about things we think you can't handle because we're such a bunch of patronising twats. We're only thinking of you you understand...

How the feck is Jill supposed to feel about being put on the spot like that? Totally singled out.

I'm in my late 40s. Have a bunch of friends (dating from school and college days) who didn't have children or couldn't. They all handle it differently and have shown various degrees of stress and stoicism. I know this because we talk in real life. I don't need to make assumptions on their behalf. The way this so called friend has gone about it is really disgusting akin to throwing a grenade into the friendship group.

[Leighhalfpennysthigh]

@onanothertrain of course. My favourite.

[HeckyPeck]

we are living this mad hedonistic lifestyles and always on the piss/on holiday

I wish!

[HeckyPeck]

OP, you’re not being unreasonable and good on you for leaving the secret group.

[Sparklesocks]

Ugh I would feel very patronised if I were Jill

[Missingstreetlife]

She's a bitch. Jill can opt out of what she doesn't want to see. When ppl try to protect others it's almost always about themself. Jill is going to be really pissed off, are you brave enough to tell her, and warn the others off. I would start a new group without this catty cow in it

[Eastie77]

I think (hope) my friends actions are misguided rather than spiteful. I can't think of any reason she'd intentionally set out to hurt Jill. I think she's made an assumption based on how she might feel in Jill's position. She is assuming a) Jill is sad/upset about not having DC and b) doesn't want to hear about our children at all. The former might be true (I honestly don't know and neither does my friend as Jill hasn't told her this) but I'm almost certain the latter is not.

Agree with previous posters that it would be odd and uncomfortable to ask Jill if she would prefer us to move child-chat to a separate group. I genuinely don't see the need. She often starts child related conversations without any prompting, e.g. she will open up a conversation by mentioning she saw an offer for half-priced theme park tickets and go on to ask the group at large about plans for our DC over the summer etc. Surely if you wanted to avoid the mention of children altogether you wouldn't do this.

[Eastie77]

I also wanted to add I'm so sorry some of you who are involuntarily childfree (I apologise if that is clumsily phrased) have been on the receiving end of this kind of treatment. Sorry seems inadequate really.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh - I've read some of your posts on a different thread, I think it was the awful "You don't know tiredness/true love until.." one. Thank you for sharing so eloquently. It helped me understand a little of what another close friend who has been struggling to conceive has been going through.

[Leighhalfpennysthigh]

@Eastie77 thank you. At the time it was all consuming, but whether it works or not there is some peace eventually. I'm sure that you are being a good friend to her through this.

[Userzzzzz]

On the fence. I think removing all trace of major life events for the children from the main group is going a bit too far (E.g. the starting school stuff) but questions about calpol etc probably could be done away from the group.

[MrsKittyFane1]

I'm sure that Jill is perfectly capable of muting any group she doesn't want to take part in. It's up to her surely?
Your other friend sounds awful. I'd hate to be sidelined like this.

[AryaStarkWolf]

@Eastie77 having read your update I think you should say to the others that you don't think it's very nice to exclude Jill like that and I would leave the new group (maybe you already have?) Have any of the other friends said anything about it?

[RachelEllenR]

I'm torn - I'm in two big groups of friends and both have a separate mums group so we don't bore the others - but they've naturally grown over time so, as more people
have had children, they've been added. We also have separate groups with everyone it it.

It boils down to how Jill feels I think.

[katewhinesalot]

I think it's a great idea but it shouldn't be a secret.

[Figgygal]

Inevitably it will become the main chat area because I can't see people jumping between both depending on the subject so she will get pushed out by stealth so I think it's a really bad idea

Very clumsy from your friend if it genuinely wasn't trying to be spiteful