Really difficult situation with DS and DN

[birthdayzilla]

I have a DS who is 4. My DSister has a son who is 1. We both visit our parents for 2 weeks in the summer, so the boys are together 24/7 during this time.

I’m very close to my sister and she is close to my son and a great aunt. However, I’m having an incredibly difficult time with her. Our parenting styles are really different and her DS1 is allowed to do literally anything he wants. I would never usually comment but his latest whim is to scratch and hit my DS in the face, leaving marks. My DS also hit him once but I spent a lot of time explaining to him that hitting is always wrong and teaching him to work through anger in other ways. DS wouldn’t and hasn’t laid a finger on DN since. Now when DN hits DS my sister just says ‘they’re only children, boys will be boys’ etc. I know DN is only 1 and my DS is 4 but he’s very big for his age, he leaves scratch marks. My DS is now afraid to spend any time with him/ be in the same room or play with any toy DN wants. In the last 3 days, DN has hit and scratched DS about 8 times.

If I speak up, my sister and BIL insist I am not allowed to discipline their child, and that I’m being over sensitive as he’s just a baby. I don’t blame DN one tiny bit. He is just a baby. But his parents just laugh and coo at his ‘antics’. My sister is the golden child and my parents always side with her.

I just don’t know what to do, or if I’m even justified? They all make me feel so over dramatic. Obviously DS is much older but he’s scared.

[VeThings]

As your sister doesn’t discipline, you can ask her to keep a closer eye on her DS to ensure he’s moved away from your DD when it looks like he’s about to hit.

[TheFlis12345]

Surely at one he isn’t even that mobile so very easy for a 4 year old to get away from if they are aggressive?

[Croquembou]

@Croquembou yes it must have been shocking for you to have this twist revealed in the second sentence of my OP.

Haha, fair, I scanned so it was actually revealed to me after 'boys will be boys'. What can you do. It made for a more thrilling story.

[tolerable]

"no thankyou.no hurting"is NOT disciplining. ?

[LillithsFamiliar]

Not to repeat what everyone else has said ... but he's only one. Keeping them physically apart is the only way to deal with it. Your DSIS chatting to him won't make a bit of difference.

[user1493494961]

Visit at a different time. It will get worse with your different parenting styles.

[youarenotkiddingme]

How old is he? 13 months -1 or 23 months -1.

There's a difference.

Just 1 I'd be saying "hands down" and telling ds to come to me.

Nearly 2 I'd be using more words.

Ignore the others. And if they say anything just say that hitting is not ok at any age. And if they insist it is they'll find ds is in their lives a lot less.

I'm thinking it's probably not uncommon in this age and gap. Last week my ds and I were out and a young lad 2/2.5 ish was launching at his brother to hit him and laughing. I don't think it was nasty but clearly not acceptable.
His dad was doing a marvellous job of stopping him, being calm and firm and giving older lad attention.

[user1471590586]

So how old exactly is DN? You say 1. Is that 12 months or 23 as that's quite different. A 23 month old will have more understanding and can be told no. Also how mobile is DN? Is he crawling or walking?

[itseasybeingcheesy]

The only thing that teaches babies and children acceptable boundaries is repetition. As much as you could say "no, we don't hit" or words to that effect every time an incident occurs while you're al together, if your sister isn't doing the same and carrying it on for the other 50 weeks of the year, it will not stick with DN.

Honestly it is a real shame but unfortunately DN will need to ride out this behaviour phase on his own time if he isn't being encouraged into better behaviour by his parents. On the flip side there aren't many 5 year olds who randomly scratch other kids faces so he will grow out of it eventually but until he does you just have to rise above and lead by example in keeping your own child at a safer distance and making sure he doesn't retaliate.

[AmIRightOrAMeringue]

Hi OP

It's a tricky one because of how young the cousin is. At that age they don't really understand discipline as such so YABU if you expect your sister to discipline him. I'd just move the baby away from your son so there is an immediate consequence and say we dont scratch because it hurts, and then try and move on to something else. What would your sister do if you did this? If she wont even let you do this, then YABU. Both mine had (or are having) biting phases and it is difficult to avoid it completely. I try and watch closely when there is a situation where it's likely to arise (sharing a toy or something) but it still happens.

Does your nephew go to nursery? As there will be consequences for his behaviour there.

Is your sister planning to never discipline him when he is older? As its excusable when a 1 year old or 20 month old hits and scratches...its not so funny or excusable when a 5 or 6 year old does it because he isn't getting his own way.

Also I hate the boys will be boys phrase, it excuses poor behaviour and implies girls are held up to different standards of behaviour. What would be her reaction if your son had a 'boys will be boys' reaction and retaliated and whacked him back and seriously hurt him?

I would speak to your sister again and say your son hasn't had a good holiday. Say you can forgive a 1 year old for hitting but you're worried about future visits. How is she planning on stopping this developing as an older child can do much more damage. If she laughs or refuses I'd say it's a shame but your son shouldn't have to put up with being hurt and adults not preventing it, and nex time you'll plan your visit to cross over with hers for a couple of days only as you are tired of spending your time trying to keep them apart.

[Perunatop]

I suggest going out every day leaving Dsis and DN behind. Go to the park or swimming or for a walk, have a cafe/snack/picnic lunch and spend as little time with DN as possible. If all else fails don't stay the full 2 weeks and go home early. Parents who never discipline their children, however gently, are a pain.

[Di1979]

Teach your dc to fucking stand up for himself!

[perfectstorm]

Are we talking 13 months, or 22, when you say aged one? It makes such a difference to what you can reasonably expect. 13 months, and just a baby and you can't really reason with them - I mean, I used to do the whole, "gentle hands..." thing, but mostly you just have to watch them like a hawk to avoid carnage if they are naturally inclined to being aggressive (my first wasn't - second absolutely was!). 22 months, and you have a toddler on your hands and absolutely need to be working hard to get them to understand other people have rights and needs.

[birthdayzilla]

Thanks for all the input, I agree I was probably a bit emotional but I will keep a close eye on them as they play.

DN is 15 months, so very close to 1.


Those asking about DS moving away, it’s hard to articulate. DN likes to climb on/ pull up on DS a lot and I’ve encouraged them playing together and explained these as ‘baby cuddles’ To DS, he enjoys them. About once in every 4 times, DN will climb into Ds’s lap but then claw at his face. I think it’s made a lot worse because his nails are untrimmed so leave scratches. It’s hard to intervene as it is difficult to tell if he will scratch or just climb off.

I do take everyone’s point that it’s hard to disciple a 1 year old. I would like my sister to be a bit more proactive in watching the boys but if she won’t then I’ll have to

[birthdayzilla]

@Di1979 that’s what I’m asking for advice on. How do i teach him to stand up for himself but not hurt his cousin?

[youarenotkiddingme]

There's nothing wrong with telling your ds to move his hands away and say no and then for him to take his toy and play away from cousin.

[SeaToSki]

I think you just need to stop the climbing up on DS for now - since that is when most of the scratching is happening. Just get DS to stand up, so that DN cant reach his face. He can say to DN "no you cant climb on me because your arent gentle" That is teaching DS he can stand up for himself, but in a nice way

[Longlongsummer]

I’d not just leave this alone, if you are to have any sort of relationship with your sister and her kids then now is the time to make sure they know this isn’t on. You have to do 95% of the managing though. You just have to accept that.

You can’t leave them alone with anyone but you for a while. Try and make the time structured - lots of time in the house is a disaster. Intervene every time. With the baby it’s more a case of ‘No’ and then redirecting and also letting your son play upstairs some of the time. Physically separate them as much as possible.

I absolutely hate boys will be boys. I’d worry about the future relationships if that was the attitude now so just be very very assertive.

Suggest trips out a lot, and maybe not do two weeks next year. Just one week with a lot of structure.

It’s also worth going to play centres etc where the baby is with other kids or babies. It’ll be a good way of seeing if your sister is so laid back if the baby scratches a strangers kids face.

[DuckbilledSplatterPuff]

I agree with SeaToSki. How upsetting for you, but just because your sister can't be bothered and tells you off for complaining, you can't give up. Your sister is sooo lazy and you need to be firm with her. She is not helping her own child as they will have difficulties at nursery if this goes unchecked. It is difficult and needs diplomacy, maybe Gently moving your DS away from DN and saying in a kind voice. We don't scratch. But tell her quite firmly to bloomin well cut her childs nails!!

[sackrifice]

Get your sister to cut his nails?

[Longlongsummer]

Also totally with the advice just to intervene on both kids. I always do this now, I don’t care if I’m in a play park or with family. If any kid does very obvious bad behaviour like hitting I tell them not to. It’s not parental choice, these a kids and they can’t be hit full stop. If someone told my own kid off (firm but not screaming) I’d be fine.

[pictish]

I’d have given my sister a shitstorm for watching my kid get belted by hers, ages ago.
You say you’re close - why can’t you just get her told?

[MollyButton]

From the tone of your OP I assumed you had mistyped.

DN is 1 - that is a baby!

Yes you can say No and "gentle hands" etc. to him. But your son can move away.

Of course you and your sister have "different parenting styles". She is parenting a baby and you are parenting a 3 year old. That is a massive gulf. And even if the 1 year old is "big" he is still a baby!

The two cousins have just about zero in common at this age - and probably won't be able to play with each other for at least another 2 years, and then still need supervision. They won't be able to be "friends" until for probably another 5 - and that is if they even have anything in common then.

But overall if your parents can't see that the two children can't play together - and if your sister keeps coming out with "boys will be boys" then I couldn't be bothered to stay there and would leave and come home.

[5zeds]

Jaded mother of five here, with “wilful” dns a da few friends with challenging children. I’d tell him off every time. If they don’t like you doing it they will have to get off their arses and do it themselves.