to think the new childrens car seat law is a waste of time.........

[2shoes]

I have lost caount of the ammout of children I have seen using an adult seat belt.

seems like a case in point 2shoes

'The UK Law is for a child under the height of 135cm must use a suitable child restraint except in very limtied circumstances (ie on a one-off unplanned journey where none is available, in a taxi or if you cannot get a third seat across the back of the car safely and front passenger seat is in use)'
does this mean if 3 seats wont fit in back its ok for 1 child to go without??how would you chose?
what are booster cushions?

There's a lot of hysteria on this thread and a lot of weird ideas about risk and how you calibrate it.

Bicycle helmets are a good example. Their specification (i.e. what they are designed to do) says they should be able to protect cyclists in accidents at speeds of less than 15mph not involving another vehicle. It's worth noting that this kind of accident (colloquially known as "falling over") is much less likely to happen to a cyclist than to a pedestrian. Also the overall accident rate for pedestrians (especially child pedestrians) is higher than for cyclists. Yet no one thinks (do they?) that we should not be allowed to walk around outside without wearing a safety helmet.

On a related point, it's interesting that there is an INVERSE correlation around the world between cyclist mortality rates and the wearing of helmets. Countries like the US and the UK with lots of helmet-wearing have lots of deaths, while countries like Holland where hardly anyone wears helmets have very few deaths.

This doesn't mean helmets actually kill people, just that they're pretty irrelevant and that other factors (traffic intensity, speeds, road design and layout, separation of road space, "driving culture") are more important.

I don't have much to say about car seats, except to say that I don't find the evidence that they make much of a difference, compared to seatbelts, very convincing.

"just how many car seats are the car free supposed to buy and transport around with them,"

actually there are lots of car seats which are pretty "universal" (ie will fit in most cars).

"This doesn't mean helmets actually kill people, just that they're pretty irrelevant"

hmm - so is that why, when my brother went over his handlebars after a child ran out between parked cars, he had to have over 30 stitches on his face, and in his mouth?? As well as quite nasty concusion?

He's been over the handlebars since then.....but was wearing a helmet and ended up with nothing more than a graze on his chin and a bruised ego? And he was travelling faster the 2nd incident than he was the first!

Can anyone tell me why you can't get rear facing car seats for toddlers in the UK? There's very compelling research from Europe (mostly Scandinavia) that all children until at least 3 year (or ideally 4) should still be in rear facing seats, as there necks are very vulnerable in a head-on collision (because they're relatively weak and have comparatively oversized heads!). It's the norm in some countries in Europe. As far as I can see you can only buy Volvo ones in the UK, and I think ther're specifically designed for Volvo cars - also probably cost a fortune. Was wondering if it was to do with size of car - presumably you need a lot of space to put a child of 3 in a rearfacing seat because of legroom. Anyone have any experience of this?

moljam , booster cushions are like the high back seats but without the back/head rest, so raise the child's pelvis and shoulder up to fit the adult belt more appropriately. Can be bought for less than £5.

ah i think thats what we have for older 2 but we call them booster seats.

thankyou btw!

I had to responde re tehe wearing of bicycle helemts. It's a subject close to my heart, gvein that my mum fell off her bike going at about 25 miles an hour, bounced on her pelvis (causing multitple fractures) and then hitting the front of her head. Her bu=icycle helmet doesn't look that damaged, but when you examine it, you see how compressed the plysturene is on the one side rather than the other side. It (plus the initial impact on her pelvis, which must have absorbed some of the initial momentum) probably saved her life - yet she still suffered head injuries and for a long time we did not know if we wold ever get "Mum" back. Even now, 6 months later, she is still not back - probelms with finding words, a lack of confidence, difficuy in putting together concepts, agitation at the strangest of things.....

Helmets do make a difference.

Having said that, as an adult, I admit to still enjoying occasionally cysling wihout a helmet. However, I alwys make sure I am doing so in front of ds, in order to present him with a good example.

Car seats and seat belts are the same: we need to make sure that kids understadn how important apporpriate restraints are.

Mlojam - the law is that it is OK for the third child to go without - and it would be up to you to choose (although they still need to wear a seat belt. Personally, if it were an issue and you hade a child witth a front facing seat, I would put one in to the front seat (pushed back of course) and make the adult squeeze int to the middle seat.

I do think that a proper five set racing harness that one person desrbided as the only option in the back of a racing car should be the sort of thing that should be a specific exemtion. Even if a booster seat could be sequeezed in, I am sure it wouldn't be as safe!

hats awful about your mum i dont get why people think these things dont make a difference?
we do as suggested,2 seats in back,one in front,me sqeezed in middle(luckily i have littlish bum)and dh driving.

The thing about the cycle helmets was that some people become over-confident and ride faster and more recklessly when wearing a helmet. An inappropriate response, as cycle helmets protect the head when you fall off rather than providing protection from impact by other vehicles. Therefore, more accidents in general.

i have an ongoing battle with ds1 , who is borderline to go without one, yet i still make him use it, as i havent been able to measure him recently to know for sure

for whoever said about never paying £100 on a car seat, ds2 will be outgrowing his v soon, and the next size up for him is 500quid

i'm hoping he will grow slowly

£500 for a carseat??

The same argument was used years ago re seat belts: that peole would drive more recklessly when they had them on. Doesn't wash with me, sorry.

I can remember having to justify why I alwys insisted on wearing a seat belt, long before it was compulsory.

yes its a sn one

I have done the squeezing in the back between two car seats as well and it is not my bum that is the problem it is my shoulders. Presumably if you were in the position of having to put a child in the middle seat without a booster you would choose the tallest child. My friend's DS was 6 this week and he is 127cm tall so will hit 135 early but he still has a high back booster, and my DS who is a few months older is only 116cm, also in a high back. Although I do keep a cushion in the boot for when I am giving lifts.

lou33 Is that the britax one. dd had one and it was brilliant. and she used it untill she was 11

yes 2shoes, think i might have to get onot the family fund about it, he is going to be too small for the one we have atm, soon

top tip.
we got ours from the local paper who were running some kind of appeal.
get someone else to write the begging letter though.

i'll apply to the family fnd, they have helped before

Actually its perfectly legal to make 'short, unplanned journeys' without a carseat. So taxis etc are exempt from the law.

Personally i always travel with one (we didn't have a car til a couple of months ago) but legally you don't have to.

Dh has seen more pictures of the aftermath of car crashes than he cares to remember, and believe me, DS will be in a full car seat until he properly fits an adult seat belt. He dealt with one case that still haunts him now where the adults were wearing seatbelts in the front, and although badly injured, survived. The two children in the back were ejected from the car and both died. They would have definatly survived with minor injuries if they'd been in child seats according to the crash investigators.
My car has built in booster seats that rise up out of the back seats - I think they should be standard in all new cars

My dd is of the age of children where a lot of her friends had come out of booster seats before the law was passed only to have to go hack into them. I can understand the frustration this caused a lot of parents and extra expense. Personally I did spend £100 on a car seat for my dd which lasted her from the age of 2 til last December. For £20 a year, that was a very small price to pay for her safety. How can people put a price on their children's safety? Just because we may have been jammed 4 or 5 in the back of a car with no belts in the front or rear, doesn't mean to say that it's a desirable way to go on now. After all, smoking was once considered a healthy pastime .