To expect motorcyclists to obey the same rules of the road as me?

[SoupDragon]

Yet another tw*t haring up close and overtaking right on my wing mirror. It's not like I was driving slowly either. I think I can count on the fingers of one foot how many motorcyclists I've seen that sit patiently behind me, driving at the speed limit (or slightly above, I'm realistic!) like a car would.

Still, at least I'm safe in my car.

If you are pulling out at a junction and you hit a bike, it's your fault for not looking.

If you are turning right or left and you hit a bike who was overtaking you on the left or right, I think it's their fault. The onus is on the overtaking vehicle to be safe and although you should look when turning left or right, things can be in your blind spot. Plus no one should be overtaking on the left.

I think if bikes were more aware that probably 50% of their time on the road in London is spent overtaking (every time they are whizzing past stationary traffic they are actually overtaking though they don't see it that way) they might be more cautious.

Icing - of course the biker isn't going to deliberately hit me. My point is that I have to anticipate their actions, which is difficult, as the 1% of bikers who are aggressive and put themselves in danger by driving unsafely spoil it for the 99% of bikers who drive safely.

As yes, the same can be said of car drivers. But as I said in my last post, the consequences of hitting a car and hitting a biker are quite different.

auntyspan, i would go with the highway code which (if i can recall), would always advise you to look behind before making any manoeuvre.

i don,t think driving so as not to piss others off is a tactic mentioned in the highway code?

This actually happened to me Nightshade. I looked, I pulled out, the bike hadn't seen me indicating because he was so close then proceeded to follow me up the road, driving parallel with me and shaking his fist at me, calling me a "dangerous f*cking cow". Not nice when I had a 12 week old in the car.

One cut me up on a roundabout yesterday. And I just thought how much trouble I'd have been in if I'd hit him. If a car had done that there would have been beeping of horns and general fuss - a motorcylist just gets away with it somehow. Wierd.

Cause they come up so fast you don't notice them until you are eating their dust.

i don't just hate motorcyclists.

i hate cyclists too

i really fkin hate lorrydrivers
women drivers drive me nuts silly bitches most of them who cant use a mini roundabout without ringing their husband.

i hate white van drivers

i hate boyracers

And we wonder where road rage comes from...

The answer to the original question is'yes: you are being unreasonable to expect motorcyclists to obey the same rules of the road as you'. Some, such as speed, are common. Others, such as filtering, recognise that motorcycles are different to cars.

As a general request to all car drivers: we do not need you to be paranoid and keep looking out for us when we are behind you. We weave in order to get the mximum possible view of what is ahead.

All we ask is:

Please indicate "before" turning - I know it only proves that your indicators work at that point in time, but it helps.

Please take proper observation "before" changing direction.

Please try to drive in a broadly straight line and remember that it is only in Scalextric where the line in the middle of the road runs underneath the car. With real cars the white lines should be either side of the vehicle.

And please try to understand that a bike accelerates far faster than you think it does and cannot be expected to stop on a sixpence when the road is wet - so when pulling out it is best to leav a little braking room or - dare I say it - wait.

If these basic rules are adhered to - you can refer to The Highway Code if you forget them - we motorcyclists are more than capable of winding our way between and around you. I understand how infuriating this must be when your two hour journey takes me 40 minutes but, as someone posted, the cost to me is getting cold and wet on occasions.

But while we're on the subject of bikers obeying the same rules as drivers, let's try these for size:

When did you see a biker trying to compose a text message while riding? Try putting on a pair of gloves and sending a text, if in doubt.

When did you last see a biker on the phone while riding?

When did you last see a biker reading while riding - or playing with the lap-top on the passenger seat, or fiddling with the radio or the air-con?

When did you last see a biker turning round to sort out the misbehaving kids in the back seat?

You don't.

But I think what alarmed me most when I read Soupdragon's posts is this: this forum has the tag-line By Parents For Parents. Where do you think the various youngsters on scooters and small bikes came from? Immaculate conception? A Disney Kids factory? Or is it that other parents' kids are justifiable road kill if they have the bare-faced cheek to overtake me? One can only assume that such petty mindedness is being passed from one generation to the next. Nice.

Eleusis, honking as a bike is passing you is potentially quite dangerous.

I ride, I have done since I was in my twenties. I haven't a bike at the mo as it wasn't getting much use with my kids being so little, however I fully intend to ride again at the first opportunity.

I love it and I'd disagree that bikes are usually highly unpredictable. Some are of course, but many I've known have been really quite pedantic about the 'rules' - and safety - I got told off by one guy giving me a ride because my clothing wasn't suitable enough. He was 26 and a right joker in everyday life but on a bike he was serious as heck. Just one example.

One of the reasons I am actually glad I don't have a bike sitting on the drive atm, is the feeling of fear and apprehension I used to have every time I took it out.

I only really used it locally, when ds1 was little it was trips round town while he was with my mum, etc. but if I tell you this - as a mum, and a woman, and a fairly sensible person - EVERY time I took it out, I would have a near miss with some driver who was not careful enough. Straight up, every time.

Cars would pull out from side roads without even looking, or cut me up, or drive way too close when overtaking (yes they overtake bikes too!) and a few times I was lucky to get away with my life.

I didn't used to speed. Granted many bikers do. However I did used to weave, and yes, 'white lining' was actually pretty necessary because had I sat and waited behind all the queues of traffic on our gridlocked ring road, I would have been unable to ge into town and back within the usual hour or so I had. I always observed indicators, even when weaving. I sometimes ducked in and out in a queue, which I admit wasn't ideal - I didn't like doing that and it must have been annoying. But usually it was the car drivers who put anyone at risk.

I hope this sounds believable, I drive a car as well

Excellent post Averagebiker. You summed up this thread very well, it's ok for the op to say motorbikes are a hazard to our roads but what she seemed to have forgotten (or is just plain blind) is that road coas and danger comes from the very vehical she drives herself... a car.

The problem i see it (and it seems to be echoed by even the bike riders on this thread) is that some riders are unpredictable. Unfortunately this means that you are unsure of the actions any bike rider might take. This is equally true of car drivers too and therefore the sensible approach is to drive defensively and expect the unexpected from all other drivers/riders.

This does not seem to be the approach taken by some (and i mean some) riders, who seem to drive on the limit and expect car drivers to anticipate them. this happens with cars too, but their acceleration is much less and therefore they do not seem to "appear" suddenly like a bike. it is therefore sensible from a bike riders perspective to expect that sometimes car drivers will not see them or fail to react sufficiently to avoid them.

I do not have a problem with bikes overtaking (or undertaking for that matter) as long as they indicate their intentions obviously (as to which way they are going for example). Also they have to understand that they have to take some responsibility if an accident ensues and they were over/under taking that they are partially at fault.

Let's be honest.

Thare are some bad drivers on the road, be they pedalcyclists, motorbikers, car drivers, coach drivers or lorry drivers.

There is lots of bad attitude on the road, across all the users.

Then there are a lot of mistakes made on the road, again across all the users, be it through incompetence, tiredness, irritability, a momentary lapse of concentration.

A little bit of tolerance, and a lot of foresight by all roadusers would help immensely.