AIBU to not understand the english attitude towards the NHS?

[EggplantsForever]

Every time someone criticises the NHS, every time someone asks for better health service, or to have some not absolutely vital procedure (like IVF) covered, or to be referred to a specialist there is a barrage of voices here calling them "ungrateful", proclaiming that "the NHS is on it's knees", etc.

I just find it so peculiarly English and I have very hard time understanding it! Perhaps you can explain?

I mean, it is almost as if people feel that someone very nice and kind has given the English people the free health service, and they should be eternally grateful and not mention its shortcomings or it will be taken away. But the NHS is in fact paid by your own taxes! It belongs to you. And you have full right to criticise it and expect it to work just as well as other free healthcare systems in the world. Which it doesn't. It actually compares pretty badly even to the countries that spend less money per capita on health. I have a feeling it is actually badly mismanaged.

For example, look at this table en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_of_healthcare
UK is at the bottom at most of them, below Portugal/Spain, Israel, and Slovenia who spend significantly less money on healthcare.

From my personal experience, having lived in a country with free healthcare, you could go to a gynaecologist without referral (and women were advised to see one for a yearly check up). Skin specialist did not require referral either. Referral to any other specialist took me on average two weeks. IVF was available to everyone for free. The list of cancer drugs included drugs that are not funded in the UK. etc And people still routinely complained about their healthcare. Which they had full right to do, because it was funded by their own taxes.

So I am just not sure why is everyone so afraid to criticise the NHS? It is actually one of UK's biggest problems. And why does everyone eternally fear that it will be "taken away"?

[Graphista]

"They get paid CQUIN funding based on giving alcohol reduction advice hence the need to ask the question. Not the GPs fault - blame NHSE." That's outrageous!

All these "bonuses" GP's get - on top of their very nice salaries! Are in my opinion distracting them from DOING THE JOB RIGHT!

I firmly believe (despite weak denials from GP's) that this is why there's hard sell on coils too - it's NOT because it's genuinely in the patients best interest but because there's a financial incentive bribe

Way too much like USA system for my liking where Drs are "incentivised" bribed by drug & other medical provision companies to promote/sell their products.

No! Absolutely against the ethos & ethics of the nhs and medically irresponsible!

A waste of patients time & nhs resources. Completely unacceptable.

"Not so,they can earn more but to ensure they receive their full funding. They lose money if they don’t ask rather than gaining if they do. They’re hands are tied, I’m afraid." Its still a financial incentive which is unethical.

Also an article on the sexism in the nhs

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nhs-womenukk_5beec53fe4b0510a1f300afd

[SaltPans]

I was saying last night, that we will only have more social care and benefits spending on the elderly, if people don’t succumb to lifestyle conditions when they are younger, so while the NHS might save money, there may not be an overall saving for the country. I believe China is heading for 2 working adults to support 5 children and elderly adults - and it’s their culture that children care for their parents and send them “remittances” far more than is the norm here! Given their total fertility rate is quite close to ours, it’s likely we will face the same?

I only read this today:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45354846

As for smoking, drinking and obesity, IMO they are attempts at self medication by some people under stress; and until the emotional causes are tackled, people might give up one, but they will only seek another drug form of escapism - which will cause harm somehow!

[Graphista]

Thing is, even if you discount the cultural differences in care provision there's the fact that the govt expect people to work full time well into 60's even 70's now regardless of if they have elderly relatives that need care.

So even if people wanted to care for elderly, sick relatives they're largely unavailable to.

I agree a lot of "poor lifestyle choices" are down to people self medicating other issues - not even necessarily mental health ones. Cravings for certain foods can be down to nutrient deficiencies caused by underlying physical conditions. I'm sure other addictions may sometimes have underlying health conditions.

[Badbadbunny]

As for smoking, drinking and obesity, IMO they are attempts at self medication by some people under stress; and until the emotional causes are tackled, people might give up one, but they will only seek another drug form of escapism - which will cause harm somehow!

Pretty sure there's a link between people stopping smoking and the rise in obesity. My old GP once told me that nearly everyone has a "crutch" to cope with life, for some its smoking, for others food, alcohol or drugs. Take it away and they just find a different form.

[HelenaDove]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3435247-Jimmy-McGovern-has-written-a-new-drama-about-a-single-mum-who-also-becomes-a-carer

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

It’s pettled by politicians as they can use it as a bargaining tool to gain votes

The NHS needs to change we can’t provide the care it is trying to do much money is wasted its eyewatering

There are other alternatives. I don’t think we shall go the American way of using insurance as we have a very different attitude towards health care in this country even to many liberals in the states

But no party is willing to really let the NHS go and try a different system as they know it would lose them a number of elections

We are flogging a dead horse I wish politicians would be more honest and propose other ways we could still have a good, reliable and efficient healthcare system

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

*peddled by ....

[tinytemper66]

My husband has just used his private health insurance from work to see. cardiologist as he was told he would wait until March to see one with the NHS and our local health board. He had a heart attack in Bruges at the beginning of the month and the earliest he would be seen to have an ECG would be in the middle of December and the results could take up to March with Christmas and NY.
He was treated swiftly in Bruges and had a stent fitted within 5 hours of me phoning the emergency services. I don't think he would have had the same service here sadly.

[FaginsGal]

Pointless pouring more money into a system that until the biggest problem is solved - eg lack of communication between departments and too much bloody paperwork to leave time for treating and nursing the sick!

[HelenaDove]

Major incidents have been declared at Southampton and Princess Anne hospitals after a power cut and BACK UP GENERATORS HAVE FAILED TO START.


//www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1051471/Southampton-hospitals-major-incident

A spokesman for University Hospital Southampton NHS Foundation Trust said all patients were safe but all non-urgent activity had been cancelled. He said: "University Hospital Southampton has suffered a major power cut and has declared a major incident. All patients in Southampton General and the Princess Anne hospitals are safe. "All non-urgent activity is cancelled at present. Please do not attend the hospital for non-urgent care such as outpatients, routine X-rays or blood tests

"We are asking relatives not to visit the UHS until further notice. Staff are busy caring at present and we would further ask you not to call switchboard if possible.

"The emergency department is closed for all except urgent emergencies.

"We will keep you informed as the day goes on and are grateful for your support at present and apologise to those whose care is now delayed."

Firefighters deal with a small blaze in a rear room.

Hampshire Fire and Rescue spokesman, Simon Carr, said: "We were called to Southampton General Hospital at 08:41.

"Seven engines and support vehicles were on the scene. The incident was a fire in an electrical room caused by an overloaded inverter.

"Two sets of breathing apparatus, two jets and fire extinguishers were used."

One person, who wished not to be named, said: "The place is in complete darkness, there are no lights and there is no power.

"The backup generators haven't started and people are walking around with torches." Another person said: "There is a major incident going on at the Southampton General Hospital and there is no power and the backup generators have failed to start.

"There are hardly any lights on."

More to follow



i wonder how long NHS computers take to reboot.

[HelenaDove]

www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17261042.live-major-incident-declared-at-southampton-hospital-after-power-black-out/?ref=appshr

[MissConductUS]

Standard practice at hospitals should be to test start the generators at least once a month. I wonder if they wee doing this.

[Sunflower678]

The NHS was set up in the post war period, there was a general sense after the war effort that had bought people and communities together, that there should be free health care for all regardless of ability to pay. Its staff who work so hard are its greatest asset. You can't just dismantle an organisation. You have to change the vision but who would buy into anything else. In my opinion technology and the demand for instant health care are going to solve some of its problems (and create new ones).