Clapping to be replaced by jazz hands at Manchester student union events

[TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap]

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/clapping-banned-jazz-hands-university-15223965

This is because clapping and whooping are said to be problematic for people with hearing problems and/or anxiety and sensory issues. Jazz hands are to be used instead. I didn't know that was something from British Sign Language.

Is this really a big problem? Is this a proportionate response? Will it catch on in the wider world?

My AIBU was going to be to think this is ludicrous, but reading the bit about students with disabilities I'm not sure now. We need an 'I'm on the fence' emoticon.

I can't do jazz hands because I have restricted movement in my left wrist. I'm also very short-sighted so it would be really hard for me to see other people doing them. I feel both triggered and excluded by this.

How is it cultural appropriation? It isn't. The jazz hands move was synonymous with the choreography style of Bob Fossee and is mostly used in jazz dance and musical theatre.

🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻🖐🏻

I’d have thought they would be better (and less wierd) asking for quiet clapping.

I’m on the fence too. I wouldn’t care if I was asked not to clap if it cause someone problems.

It seems an odd thing for a student union to get involved with so soon in the year though. You would think there would be other more important things to do.

I’d be delighted if whooping was banned though.

I've either missed the entire point of this or I'm dreaming. I think I need someone to explain this to me!

If a Deaf person is receiving traditional applause (I mean clapping), then they can see the actions, and not hear them. If that Deaf person receives 'alternative' applause such as the 'jazz hands', then this can also be seen, but no one can hear it at all. Deaf people therefore are not missing out or being discriminated against in any shape or form from being surrounded by people clapping. Therefore, are we not now just substituting one visible act (from a Deaf person's point of view) for another? And in dark auditoriums, who will see the jazz hands? There is also a range of auditory difficulties, so some registered Deaf people will be able to hear a small amount of clapping, and also 'feel' it.

I do understand the issues with noise levels and / or tone / resonance with regard to autism, and note that there is a variety of responses above from 'don't be daft, it doesn't matter to me' to 'yes, it would be a relief for me'. I get that, both sides. There are things that I can't cope with in the public realm and I have strategies for those, just as others do above (I get not everyone has). However, is this proportionate? That's one of the biggest and most important points in anything surrounding disability rights.

Before I get flamed, I have both physical and mental-health based disabilities. I guess I just need a 'proportionate' explanation!

Interesting. I've seen a lot recently about measures to accommodate and support people with different needs (supermarkets, museums etc having 'quiet hours' with dimmed lighting) and can only applaud this kind of thinking and consideration really.

I went to watch some dressage at the 2012 Paralympics and, because some of the horses were very highly strung and the riders were in many cases not strong or coordinated enough to cope with them making sudden or violent movements, we were asked to wave instead of clap. It was rather beautiful.

Having said that, I do like the energy of a room full of people applauding and whistling etc; in a way it'd be a pity to lose that. But then again, I'm lucky enough not to have sensory issues.

Well this is interesting.

I am one of those who gets anxious when people are clapping or whooping. If physically cringe. It's so uncomfortable.

Yes a world without clapping/ loud noises would be heaven to me. But I would never dream of asking people not to do it...

I feel like that kind of decision always comes from someone desperate to show how super inclusive and thoughtful they are rather than from someone with sensory issies.

The rationale wasn’t about deaf students, it was because a lot of arseholes on the council were using clapping as a means of drowning out some speakers

This is actually the original idea behind clapping. In Ancient Greece it was used to drown out bad theatrical performers. Eventually it replaced cheering as a demonstration of approval. Now we just evolve to jazz hands.

Its really shitty thing to suggest in regard to blind and partially sighted people.

It depends what the disability du jour is at the NUS , and they are a fickle bunch!!

@WanderinWomb - I think you have it in a nutshell....

It’s interesting to note that Student Unions today have the ability to make everyone point and laugh at them as like they did when I was at uni 20 years ago.

It predates Fosse.

He introduced it // usedin musical theatre but didn't invent it.

I suffer from anxiety and even I had a hard eyeroll at this when I heard it on the radio this morning. There is obviously another motivation behind this and student politics has always been a bit like this.

This doesn't really make anything more 'inclusive' does it?

Excludes visually impaired people.

Excludes people who might find the sight of loads of people waving their hands around in that way alarming. The thought of loads of people jazz handsing at me is kind of unsettling to be honest!

Plus Missus makes the point thar deaf people will be able to see people clapping in the same way they will be able to see people jazz handsing. It makes no difference to them.

Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhh

I'd prefer 'spirit fingers' to replace both.

This doesn't really make anything more 'inclusive' does it?

No! But it does show a group of otherwise fairly unknown people in a truly good woke light - God Bless 'em on and all!

If I were blind or deaf I'd find this a riduculously conspicuous-PC notion!

What about blind people? Surely the clapping motion is obvious?
Anyway if you're gonna do it a synchronised Mexican wave would be more appropriate. Everyone would have to be paying attention then.

Babies learn to clap early and it usually is showing pleasure. I presume profoundly deaf babies do at a similar age, because it's as much about tactile feedback as the actual noise isn't it?

I'd have thought asking for no whooping/hollering/whistling would be better. You can tell the difference between warm, encouraging applause and enthusiastic (or not!) applause. I don't know whether that's as easy with the BSL version — it's something very few of us have grown up with.

It's no more inclusive. It excludes blind people as least as much and it also excludes people who are lacking hands. Dd2 uses her hand clapping against her thigh or other arm.

But anyway clapping is at times intuitive. If I'm watching something and something particularly impresses me then I'm often clapping without thinking about it. I don't think they'll be able to stop people doing that.

Plus if you're watching something and the person in front keeps throwing their hands up to do jazz hands it's very irritating as well as blocking your view.

Oh for God’s sake!

I’m autistic and I think this whole “jazz hands” thing is stupid. Everyone claps. Don’t like it, tough. We can’t expect the world, which predominately consists of normal, neurotypical people, to adapt to what a small minority want all the time. If anything autistic people like myself need to learn to adapt to the neurotypical world. If we get upset about people clapping their hands then what chance have we got when it comes to the big issues like employment?

This attitude that everyone else needs to adapt to people on the autism spectrum - mostly who can’t bring themselves to admit their issues are in fact a disability and a mental health disorder - really annoys me. We are in a minority and as such we need to learn, just as we have had to for many years, to adapt to the NT world. Hence why autistic people go to therapy to learn how to socialise and conform to societal norms whereas NT people don’t.

Once again I must stress that this is coming from someone on the autism spectrum. This is not me being disablist or anti-autistic, just acknowledging that people like myself exist in a minority and that I don’t agree that people should pander down to us.

Also I think as soon as we start acknowledging that autism is not just a “difference”, rather it is a disability and MH problem, then we may actually start getting better access to treatment and services. It’s this attitude that we are not actually disabled that holds us back I think... people don’t take our issues and the things that hold us back from living a normal life seriously enough.

For those who disagree with me: you’re basically saying social skills deficits, anxiety surrounding looking at people’s eyes, and not being able to tolerate bright lights, loud music, scratchy clothing isn’t disabling? They are all disabling to me...

My brother is deaf so does jazz hands instead of clapping.

I have sensory issues and sometimes clapping is OK and sometimes I find it really overwhelming. I remember going to see a show earlier in the year which was briliant, but between every song, there was so much clapping and whooping that I had to cover my ears and I was becoming really stressed, so it would be a good thing if there was an alternative and it became a thing

"Deaf people have been using 'Jazz hands' for many years as clapping is clearly useless to them."

I strongly disagree with this. Many deaf people can appreciate and participate with clapping, whooping and foot stomping. (Can even participate in a clapped/stomped rhythm )

Of those who are adversely effected by these, lots will already be aware of this and may already use appropriate ear defenders in such circumstances.

It may be that it has greater effect on those with other conditions or sensory issues, although I do personally know some people with such issues who enjoy the sound and feel of clapping, whooping and foot stomping, and a few others who use appropriate ear defenders.

Very sad that clapping would be banned. It is very much part of the experience.