Is quality of life in West London and the South-East UK really better than East London and the North UK?

[lndonist]

Considering the high cost of living in West London and South London, with the relative sparse infrastructure investment of the UK government (though we're better off financially and have more personal freedom than in other countries), is quality-of-life in these areas generally better than the ones those have who live in places like East London?

I guess a similar question could be asked of the North-South divide. The Great Recession brought down living standards for a lot of the middle class (with surveys showing that the lower class never saw a huge change in lifestyle, probably due to there being a bottom floor at which point government handouts kick in) and I sometimes think that the cost-of-living in West London means that quality-of-life is about the same.

The labour market ( particularly the graduate labour market) in Leeds and Manchester is comparable to London. The idea you need to move to London to get a decent job is a myth.

I'm fascinated by those that say it's grim up north....what exactly do you imagine it's like? And what do fantastic ( and different) about the south?

I think, as a graduate, I felt like I had to try London our iyswim. We spent time elsewhere immediately after graduation but then moved to the outskirts of London. Now I’ve tried it I wish we could leave, but we’re sort of stuck here due to dh’s job. He loves his job, so I can’t make him leave (boo). If we’d never tried it though, I also think I’d have regretted it for some reason... don’t know why.

The labour market ( particularly the graduate labour market) in Leeds and Manchester is comparable to London. The idea you need to move to London to get a decent job is a myth.

Having moved from Leeds to London for work... I disagree! Whilst there are a LOT of jobs in Leeds/Manchester there are quite a few e.g. specialist fiance jobs that are only in London.

Pp the cost of living is much cheaper up north We regularly travel down (from Newcastle) to see family and even things like coffee are more expensive. Eating out is loads more in general. Also some chains do vary in price. I love it up here for the amount of space, proximity to coast and country and price of property. However I like living in the city, have worked in small town semi rural north and couldn't see myself living there.

DC is a recent graduate and has had to make this very decision. Weighing up having all the culture that London has to offer on hand vs having more disposable income in other parts of the UK to be able to travel and indeed visit London if there’s an exhibition/gig they fancy going to. The sector they’re looking to go into is well represented in all the UK’s major cities so employment chances aren’t necessarily higher in the SE.

Standard of living is such a difficult one to define and for me a lot of my happiness in where we live comes from being near family and close friends. I think the importance of support networks is often left out of these discussions.

The idea that London is the centre of the graduate labour market is indeed a myth - this was from the UK's leading data analyst on the Graduate Labour Market speaking at a conference only last week.

Only 21.6% of 2016 graduates started their career in London. Many of those jobs were confined to a relatively small area of London.

23% of the country’s businesses are based in London - which means it would be impossible for all graduate jobs to be based in London.

Of course there will always be specialist jobs based in London but they will be sector specific and we're talking general terms here. If you wanted to work in the gas and oil industry you wouldn't head to London - you'd go to Aberdeen.

Leeds has a thriving financial sector and Manchester is a hub for creative, media , advertising and marketing.

East London and many northern towns are pretty rough.

There are rough parts all over the UK ....

I live in the east Midlands between 2 cities and it's a fantastic quality of life. One of the last affordable places to live in England, loads to do, great public transport, jobs. 90 minute train journey from London and near the Peak district with wonderful green spaces.

I lived in the south west in a seaside town before and it was shit. Unemployment was so high as there were no jobs and a lot of young people were taking drugs as there was nothing else to do. A place people just go to to die imo.

I'm in a low paid job and I'm still comfortable enough to enjoy holidays and things for DS. I'd be on my knees if I lived in the south east.

I don’t think we can entirely call it a myth that some areas of the country have a stronger graduate labour market than others.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2018/mar/18/regions-london-brain-drain-graduates-metro-mayors

44% of graduates leave Yorkshire for employment elsewhere (not necessarily London) and 38% of Russell group (I know it’s a very crude way to categorise so called ‘top’ universities) graduates went ended up in London. I think it is partly built on perception but also niche employment and prestigious law/banking firms meaning London has a monopoly on high income grad positions. I don’t know what the solution is, and where we are it’s fair to say we haven’t seen a sniff of the government’s northern powerhouse, but a lot of graduates are in the position where to use their degree (short of setting up their own company) London is the only option - or at least the only perceived option.

Don't believe everything you read in the media.

The idea that there is high mobility from graduates is also a myth.

Only 18% of graduates from 2016 are working in areas which that have no connection to.

58% of 2016 graduates have stayed to work in the area they studied in and 69% work in the area they were originally domiciled.

The data from the guardian article is from a political communications group. My data is from an impartial data analyst who specialises in the graduate labour market

Only 18% of graduates from 2016 are working in areas which that have no connection to.

Which links back to my comment about how the importance of support networks is often overlooked in discussions of standard of living. And indeed my DC grew up in the north, studied in the north and are job hunting in the north. The SE also (I believe) has a higher number of young people going into HE so corroborates graduates returning there.

It is complex and there are many factors at play that range from young people wanting to live near family to Leeds grads wanting to go and work for a magic circle law firm in London but IMO there is an underlying perception (as seen through this thread as well as data) that it is easier to find a job in London as a graduate, and for graduates of some disciplines that is still the case. That is sonething that is in the process of being addressed but there is still a long way to go.

Just quickly popping onto a graduate job search site and of the 560 jobs advertised 240 are in London, dropping to only 77 in the NE. That’s without looking at what the jobs actually are so by no means a thorough study but if one site advertising jobs across the country has over 40% being in London it could be an indication of the wider graduate job market (and also could not be - this is just a crude snapshot of some numbers).

It is indeed a complex picture. However, the idea that everyone needs, or even wants, to move to London is indeed a myth a unversities are beginning to understand and cater for this.

Your son falls into a category of graduates referred to as 'loyals'. They live, study and now want to work in the same area. This category accounts for 45% of all graduates.

Job hunting is also complex and varies hugely depending on sector. The website you looked at is a very small snapshot. If you were to look for a job in my sector you'd find a realtively even split across the UK.

Also, large numbers of graduates go to work for SMEs which don't tend to recruit in the same way large graduate recruiters do.

The "loyals" point reminded me of an article int he FT about a recent book. The author divided people into those who don't move and those who don't. I've forgotten his term - citizen of anywhere...ah found it... i remembered his ex wife's name which makes a nice change- husband of Lucy Kellaway.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Goodhart Goodhart. Citizen of Anywhere was his book in 2017.

I moved from the NE to university and then to London for work so I can see this from all sides. Also it depends on what is important to you. My son likes long cycle rides, country side etc and he lives in Chesham. His sisters live in the middle of London. I live in the suburbs of London. We have a relative who moved from Yorkshire to Surrey for work on graduation. My sibling worked in London and then settled in Yorkshire (Yorkshire is south for us remember as we are from further north).

Are you confusing life expectancy data with quality of life?
I’ve lived in London, rural Oxfordshire and rural and urban Yorkshire. All fantastic in their way.
I love London and we go down several times a year, we are members of a club that has rooms. I would happily live in London, but I’d want to be rich enough to have a nice house with a small pretty garden, off-street parking, and in Zones 1 or 2 and close to a tube station. We are high earners now but we couldn’t afford that.
Rural Oxfordshire is beautiful and it’s quick into London, however prices have rocketed since we left so that’s a consideration.
Yorkshire has beautiful countryside and some great towns and cities. Were it not for ties, I’d probably live in Leeds. Cities in Yorkshire have excellent rail links to London with cheap fares if you book in advance, but it’s too far for a relaxed day trip, you really need to stay over if you are visiting for pleasure. I’m in East Yorkshire, which is very sunny and has some beautiful scenery, but I must admit that North Yorkshire beats it hands down. It has a stunning coastline, moors, woodland and dales.
There are some excellent schools, state and private too.
I’m very happy living in a Yorkshire city in a detached house looking onto a river, walking distance to the city centre and a quick drive to country walks. Low housing costs means we can afford to travel and go to London frequently.
In my twenties I’d have been happy scraping by in London on a moderate income, but I’m too soft around the edges now.
My daughter also lives and works in what you would class as a northern city. She got on a grad scheme and and earned above the national wage from the off and is now earning really well. She is having a great time as she has a good disposable income, even allowing for saving for a deposit.