feeling that tax credits are totally biased towards working mums?

[Dragonhart]

I am a SAHM and I get the min working tax credit as my DH earns just over the min for getting more help.

I was talking to my friend yesterday who works 4 days a week as a teacher (their combined salaries are just below the top of the band of getting any money) and I was saying what I got now we have two children. I get just over £40 plus about £40 baby element. When dd is 1 and I have two under 3 I will get £40.

She told me that she gets about £160 a months towards childcare in vouchers on her and her husbands paypacket (not sure if this is classed as tax credit?) and £75 permonth for her only ds in tax credits.

I am not making a coment about whether or not people choose to work as I stongly believe that everyone should have a choice to do what is right for them.

I just think that I should be supported in the same way as working mums. Surely I am my childrens 'childcare'?

I've given up.

I'm encouraging my children to emigrate as soon as possible.

Perhaps if we didn't live in an expensive country then we'd all be a lot better off regardless of tax credits and what nots. I'm sure goods and services cost more in the UK than they do in many other parts of the world. For example I saw an ad last week advertising flights to Valencia for £26.99 but if you see the same ad abroad, it is offering the identical flight for 26.99 euros. A euro is not worth as much as a pound, so anyone who pays in sterling is subsidising those who pay in another currency .

Well at the end of the day women who are working get more as the government is trying to encourage women to go out to work. They will pay tax and make more of a financial contribution to society and get rewarded for this.

Now what I think is really unfair is that as a student midwife I "work" 35 hours a week in an NHS hospital. And believe me I do work hard. I work shifts, weekends, nights, etc. I have childcare to pay.

Yet I cannot claim working family tax credit as according to the woman on the phone "I'm not working and need to be working for 16hours a week".

I agree, chocolate. I mean, I will never understand exactly why the UK is so expensive - for everything.

'Oh, it's a small island'.

Ever been to Europe? Not exactly vast swathes or land and population isn't exactly small.

But it's still not such a gouge for most thing.

expat - why the UK is so expensive?

Because the standard of living is so high...

Here we go. It always ends up here. The underlying problem to it all is the cost of living. Yep, I totally aggree.

I don't think it is either the wealthy or the poor who are overlooked, but the vast majority of people who work hard and struggle in the middle. Most of us make too much money for any kind of help, Gordon Brown thinks we are rich and taxes us accordingly, but we still don't have enough money to buy a house to live in, let alone get a nanny in because she is cheaper than the childminder.

Shall I continue or get off my soapbox?

...because people happily pay the prices charged in Sainsbury's/Tesco/Curry's/B&Q etc and don't spend time shopping around for bargains.

We're too affluent to care about saving a few £££ here and there so the retail giants get away with overcharging. At the same time we have the cheapest milk in Europe, because the supermarkets are happy to screw the dairy industry to make us all think that our whole shop is cheap.

Eleusis - nannies (properly qualified ones) will only ever be for the rich. People who are willing and able to undertake that level of training and responsibility have other choices in life, and so they cost money.

UK house prices are another, much more complicated, issue.

But, more generally, I think that many of us need to remind ourselves a bit more often just how much we have and how much we take for granted compared to most other people on the planet. The standard of living is phenomenally high.

That's right Anna. When my DS asked if were were rich, I felt I had to tell him, actually, compared to the rest of the planet we are.

Yet dairy farmers in Devon earn on average 2.50 an hour, if you divide income by hours put in. Someone is getting screwed somewhere along the way, and it's my guess it's not T3sco shareholders or board.

Xenia- house prices in Devon have recently, thanks to a massive influx of downshifters with too much spare cash, evened out and are comparable with the SE. Average house price- 200,000. Average salary 18,000. You do the sums. There is some very real deprivation here. Hourly rates in offices eg for temping are NEVER over 10 pounds per hour. In fact that would be a bloody brilliant rate.

We live here because my husband's work (a govt dept) was part of a decentralisation bid instigated by central government in order to regenerate the area. All that has happened is that the differences between the haves and have lesses have widened.

Actually I think that although the standard of living is marginally higher in the UK than in many countries I've lived in/ experienced, it is the spread of income that is most problematic on very many levels- it creates relative poverty, which in turn engenders feelings of failure and marginalisation leading to poor educational outcomes, as many young people see their parents struggling daily for very little gain.

sorry- slow typing- my first paragraph was supporting fortyplus' remarks about milk.

'Because the standard of living is so high... '

That is the funniest thing I've read all day.

I think our standard of living is probably comparable with most western European countries. Presumably it's far higher than in Eastern Europe, which is why highly educated Poles will come here and live 5 to a room whilst working as waiters so that they can send money back home.

Re: spread of income... apparently the top 1% of wage earners pay roughly 25% of all income tax.

That's a sobering thought, isn't it?

Anna, a live in nanny is cheaper than two kids at a childminder in West London... Nannies are not just for the rich. I can preach 'til the cows come home on this topic. What exactly do you mean by a qualified British nanny? I've had an Estonian and a Canadian nanny. And I have yet to understand why being British makes one better qualified to look after my kids. Oh, and I have another Canadian due to start in July.

Oh shit I just reread your post and you didn't say anything about "British". Hmmmm... I obviously have heard that a lot before and jumped to a conclusion when it wasn't actually what you said.

However, now that I've made an arse of myself... what do you mean by properly qualified nannies? I think every parent has a different view of what qualities a nanny should posess. And it is the parents priviledge to hire accordingly.

And it is still true that nannies are often cheaper than childminders/nurseries (if yo ulive in greater London).

eleusis - no worries. Yes, I was trying to make more general economic points. The nanny versus childminder cost-benefit analysis tends to have regional/national variations according to tax legislation and requirements re training, premises. And, on a planetary scale, nannies (and childminders) are for the rich and privileged.

I think you might find Brithish nannies reuqire more money, especially if they hold Btec type qualifications.

Yes, British nannies do tend to expect more pay (as British employees in many lines of work -- not just nannies). But, I find Candians have a better work ethic and are more likely to speak my language (American).

Nannies ought to be able to read, write and speak a language pertinent to the child to a decent standard. They need to be sufficiently well-educated to teach a child the basics of functioning in the world beyond the immediate home. They need to understand about the importance of hygiene, nutrition, sleep, exercise, consideration for others. They should be kind and patient. They should not be servile.

Nannies do a responsible job and it's only right they should be paid well.

It's about what you prefer for your own child. Philipinos have a reputation for high standards of cleanliness, where as Australians are condsiered to be relaxed and out going, but not likely to keep the play room in immaculate order.

NKF, couldn't agree with you more. Why are people so resentful of the cost of child care? The same people don't moan on and on about the price of food.

Some people pay their cleaners more than their nannies! Both deserve good wages.