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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

(or completely old-fashoned) to feel a bit shocked about this?

60 replies

Countingthegreyhairs · 10/05/2007 12:43

As I'm not overly-confident about my own parenting skills I'm currently addicted to those Tiny-Tearaway/Super Nanny type of programmes. Anyway, I was watching one of them last week which featured a father talking to his four-year-old son. The conversation went like this ...

Father: Did you have a good day at school?

Son: Yes but x hit me.

Father: Did you hit him back?

Son: Yes

Father: (said very casually) That's my boy! What do you want for tea?

This has been on my mind ever since. The conversation wasn't even alluded to in the programme and it was the casual acceptance that 'hitting back' was not only acceptable but expected that shocked me. Am I being unreasonable or is this what we are supposed to teach our children nowadays?

OP posts:
Muminfife · 10/05/2007 12:49

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speccy · 10/05/2007 12:50

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bozza · 10/05/2007 12:51

I think in response to that I would have said "so what did you do" or "why do you think he hit you", that kind of thing.

powder28 · 10/05/2007 12:52

Are you sure you werent watching The Simpsons?

barbamama · 10/05/2007 12:54

We do the bit of both thing too as well - don't know if that is right or wrong. i.e our policy is if someone hits, walk away, tell teacher whatever, if they do it again or follow you continuing to hit then it is ok? or at least understandable to defend yourself aka hit back. DS is still quite young so not sure how this will pan out - I hope dp wouldn't be too obvious about it in front of him but I know secretly he would be thinking "that's my boy" as long as ds didn't start it - think it is a man thing that comes from when they were kids and pretty much were expected to get into fights in the playground. You're right though, prob shouldn't be encouraged.

MaureenMLove · 10/05/2007 12:54

Do you think its maybe a man thing? I think its wrong too, but I only have a dd, so I've never really had to deal with the hitting thing. Just the bitching!!

wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 10/05/2007 12:55

maybe it's because it was the father though? think men have a different view to standing up for/defending oneself than women, esp where boys are concerned. think most men probably got into fights in the playground at some point in their childhood and consequently don't see it as that bad a thing.

easywriter · 10/05/2007 13:01

I think the parents reaction amoungst other thigs depends on the age of the child. Mine are 3 and i talk to them to get them not to hit, to see how sad the erson the've hit is if they do, to apologise and if they are hit to tell the person that they're upset, ask them not to do it , apologise etc. etc. but when they get to school I'm aware i'll need a different approach. I don't know what that is yet but you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be "atta girl!".

I think the show probably omitted the discussion around it as ultimately it depends if the parent thinks hitting is acceptable. which is a multi-facetted can of worms to be opened by the brave (just for the record, I am neither brave nor suggesting we open this can of worms!!!)

Original poster
Countingthegreyhairs · 10/05/2007 13:14

Thxs for all of your responses. LoL powder28!! It is a difficult one. I think it could be a 'man thing' but I reckon I'm with you Bozza. Would try and find out why it happened and get to the bottom of it although not always easy with a four-year-old! I guess it struck a nerve with me because I was bullied very badly at school and I was always too nervous to retaliate (even verbally) with the result that it spiralled out of control. So the prog made me think about what I would teach my dd if she was in the same situation. I don't want her to behave like I did (a limp rag!!) and (like you Speccy) I want her to have confidence in her self and feel that she can stand up for herself when necessary. But I definitely don't want her to resort to violence either ....

OP posts:
RGPargy · 10/05/2007 13:23

Sorry but if someone wallops my kid, i'd want them to stand up for themselves and wallop them back!

2shoeswhoismshadowsnumber1fan · 10/05/2007 14:10

I would tell ds to hit back. as I have always said to him I don't send him to school to be a punch bag

secondclasscitizen · 10/05/2007 14:15

no we are supposed to tell our children to stand there and take it, then tell the teacher.

however real life without mumsnetters and their herbs is a big different.

especially when its not the occasional thump.

you see its all about top dog at school ( you went didn;t you?) cultures of schools are different but the prevailing ideology it mains the same whatever age.

My kids wer taught to tell the teacher. If it then happened again. thump them back.

I don't have herbs so haing not read the thread i expect to be a lone voice whilst you all join effin greenpeace or sommat.

must quickly add - some kids just can't hit back. they are not built that way. Ihave a younger son who is a lover not a fighter so i tell him to behave or he will get his older brother arrested - as if i get wind of my younger son being thumped i will instruct older son to go and sort it out.

but some kids donthave a handy older bro.

i didn;t and was mercilessly bullied at school. 11 years of abject misery i will not subject my children to.

2shoeswhoismshadowsnumber1fan · 10/05/2007 14:23

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Original poster
Countingthegreyhairs · 11/05/2007 11:52

Blimey! I guess I am old-fashioned to be shocked by it then. I still don't want to encourage my child to hit another though - even in self defence - that way the bullying just becomes a vicious circle. And if that is too herby and Greenpeace for you secondclasscitizen then too bad! Btw if you read my post - I did go to school believe it or not - and I was bullied mercilessly too. Still doesn't change my mind though. Surely if you teach a child to deal with aggressive behaviour by hitting, then that's the way they will deal with it as an adult?

OP posts:
hannahsaunt · 11/05/2007 11:59

Hmm. Not how I'm raising my boys...

hippipotami · 11/05/2007 12:04

I saw something very similar outside our school gates a few weeks ago.

Son and Father talking outside classroom. Sons' classmate comes up to son and does a friendly, pretend boxing punch in Sons' face. Son and Friend laugh, and Friend walks off. (these two boys are best friends according to DS)
So Father turns to Son and says:

"Are you just going to let him do that to you. Are you just going to stand there like a wimp. Next time, deck him one! Don't ever stand there and let anyone do that!

Urgh, myself and some of the mums who witnessed this all raised our eyebrows. I was shocked and horrified, as it so clearly was a friendly gesture, and the boys are good pals (both are in my ds's class)

It is not the way I am raising my ds, I was truly appalled. (and very surprised as Father is spitting image of John Simm and you would expect him to be nice for that reason alone!!)

2shoeswhoismshadowsnumber1fan · 11/05/2007 12:17

lol at apretend punch in the face being a friendly gesture
although the dad over reacted I wouldn't have been best pleased if some child did that to my son when he was younger.
so your all going to tell your dc's to run adn tell if they get hit.......fine at school . they will just get called a victim. but what about when they are not at school and you are not there?

ernest · 11/05/2007 12:29

MaureenMLove, the girl nexr door (aged 6) is the biggest hitter/slapper/ hooligan for miles around. My 3 boys are often the victim of her indiscrimiate violence, so atm feel quite strongly this isn't a boy thing!!

Re hitting back, it's a toughie. I have always taught our that hitting isn't allowed, but had memeorable incident in kindergarten where some kid had really hurt mine and he was really crying hard and went to kindergarten teacher in tears and after some questions amongst which my ds had said he wasn't allowed to hit back, she turned to me in mild confusion/ shock and asked was this true, that I'd told him he wasn't allowed to defend himself.

So that kind of made me change my approach. I still don't agree with hitting, but the culture we're in now seems to advocate it, and indeed, the kids are much more independant/encouraged to sort out their battles themselves.

Gobbledigook · 11/05/2007 12:31

I would have said 'did you tell Mrs X?'.

If there was ongoing bullying and nothing was being done, I'm afraid I'd tell mine to hit back too.

Gobbledigook · 11/05/2007 12:34

When I was being taunted at secondary school it only ended when I slapped the girl across the face. Sometimes, it's the only language a bully understands.

kittyhas6 · 11/05/2007 12:34

When I first started reading through the replies I thought I couldn't post mine because it would be opposite to the majority views and I'm not in the frame of mine for an argument.
Then I read further and was relieved to find that there are parents here who support hitting back for self defence and as a deterent to further physical aggresion.

I think children should try to avoid a physical retaliation if possible but very often the most effective and swiftest way to stop a thump happening again is to retaliate physically.

I have told my older children to 'thump back'

newgirl · 11/05/2007 12:42

Gosh I have just remembered when I was 11 - my younger brother (9) was bullied at school. It was an older girl and he pointed her out to me on the walk to school one day. I went over and thumped her.

And she never bullied him again

and i have never hit anyone ever again - nor has my brother

it was as is she had not considered that it might hurt and there might be repercussions for her actions

i dont think 'defending yourself' has to then lead to escalation or always makes the victim a bully. As a parent I would ask my dd what happened/did you tell the teacher first and hope that would solve it. But if she hit back in self defence I think i would support her in that.

hippipotami · 11/05/2007 12:52

2shoes, I did not explain that very well, it was a pretend movement, and it was well away from the other boys face - at least a foot and a half. Honestly, it was completely in gest (jest?) It also was not a single punch movement, more like one of those boxing warm-up moves, as in 3 rapid air punches. Does that make sense?
I do think the dad overreacted, because his son would have started a punch up over nothing. Fwiw - the boy whose dad overreacted is becoming a bit of a bully. Coincidence?

I agree children should stand up for themselves when bullied, but I don't agree with this 'hit him' mentality of the parents. No one wants their child to be a victim, but I worry when an entire generation is going to be raised on a 'talk with your fists' mentality...

honeybunny · 11/05/2007 12:53

My boys are told to tell the "thumper" to stop in a loud voice, then tell the teacher if not already spotted, and as a last resort give the other child a good shove.

Its a tricky one though,cos I dont want to encourage violence, yet boys naturally do get aggressive. My 2 fight like cats and dogs at times, over v petty things. I try to hang back and let them sort it out themselves, all good life experience, etc, but we talk a lot about trying to sort it out, out loud. Boys are hopeless at communicating!!

obimomkanobi · 11/05/2007 12:56

My children have all been told that if someone hits them then they should hit them back twice as hard. My kids are all very non-violent, cissies even! But they need to know how not to be a victim.

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