Friend sleeping with toddler still awake

[Pinkypieeyed]

Bit worried about a friend who is pregnant with her third. She has a 7 year old and a 3 year old. She's been going to bed in the day and setting an alarm to wake her up in time for the school run. However her 3 year old is being left to her own devices during this time. Should i talk to her or AIBU in thinking this is potentially unsafe?

[mareemallory]

Anachronistic

Although tbf, having a Stargate within easy access is pretty risky. They could have ended up in the Pegasus Galaxy.

Now imagining an unsupervised 3 year old with the Ancient gene running around Atlantis turning dangerous stuff on.

[drspouse]

Can we have a bit of a panic about 3 year olds who wake in the night and do their own thing?

I was wondering this too.
My 3 yo in theory needs to get up for the loo in the night (in practice it's enough of a work in progress and she is still in pull ups).
We have no stair gates. She could go anywhere, turn on the cooker etc. But she doesn't. She comes in our room, or plays with her teddies, or sings to herself.

[Pannacott]

If you really want to raise it, you need to check the scenario first, and then make it as non-threatening as possible. So...

Open with asking about being pregnant and sleepy. Is she coping? Is she tired in the day? Hopefully she'll volunteer napping (or if previously discussed, can be more direct). Ask is she able to nap on sofa or bed.

Then scenario - so DD is ok? How long is nap? Does DD get bored? (Talk about tv / activities). Does she stay in one room or roam around? (If no stair gate) Oh do you worry about her in the stairs? Knives in the kitchen? Letting herself out? (Whatever your other concerns are - give her a chance to show if she's set up work around that she hadn't talked about with you). Gosh I'd be worried about X and Y if I were in your shoes!

If you really think she's leaving the child in a dangerous situation (and come back and run it by mumsnet to check it's not you being neurotic) then leave it a few days. Great be her time to reflect and make the conversation look more organic. Then be honest and say something like, 'I'm so sorry to say this, and I really don't want to be intruding, but I've been thinking about our conversation. I'm really worried it's not quite safe leaving DD with the sharp knives / front door open. Would you put the stair gate on?'

You do risk damaging the friendship but if you really feel it's that important, that might be a fairly careful way to bring it up.

[DailyMaileatmyshit]

Enidthecat

A) I didn't remove the child. The judge did (the petition to the judge was temporary removal to investigate the injury as there were 4 suspects, one of whom lived in the family home). The judge agreed, but stated that following investigation, the children were not to be returned without returning to court (and several risk planning stages)due to mum sleeping.

B) yes, it's normal for a child to give a key to an adult who asks HOWEVER a child who is unable to make a risk assessment like that should not have unsupervised access to the key, to be giving it to an unknown person- I could have been a burglar or child abuser. Mum did not wake up and did not know and therefore was not able to protect the child.

[YellowMakesMeSmile]

Health issues are irrelevant really. You should not be leaving a 3 year old alone in a house while you are talking a nap. I have to agree with your doctor, you chose to have a child knowing your condition. If you can’t cope with day to day tasks then you either put them in nursery for longer hours or organise other help. You do not leave them to fend for themselves for hours at a time while you nap. What an incredibly selfish attitude

This ^^ Children's welfare should always come before a parents wants. Nobody needs a chid, they simply want one and many do proceed in all sorts of poor circumstances because their wants trump the child's needs.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

You are right to be concerned OP - this is absolutely not fine.

I remember waking up one morning after an horrendous night with the baby and realising it was light outside so meant my DH would have left for work. My instant thought was “Where is DC1?”

I jumped out of bed and found DC1 sitting on the sofa watching his iPad and was quite content. I was absolutely horrified that my DH would leave me sleeping knowing our son would have no supervision. Our son was 3years and 9months at the time.

When I spoke to my husband in his lunch break I said that what he’d done, although for less me reasons, wasn’t safe or acceptable. I told him that no matter how bad a night I’d had with the baby he must always wake me before he goes to work.

I dread to think what could have happened to DC1 and I still can’t believe my DH did it - I would never, ever allow child to be unsupervised.

The idea of me leaving the house whilst my DH was asleep, so I’m leaving in the knowledge that our child would be free to do as he wished as such a young age is just unimaginable.

[PerfectPenquins]

Well your assuming a lot op! So it turns out that it could most likely be one day that the child isn’t in nursery and is home with Home. You don’t KNOW the safety gate isn’t shit when you are not there but you are certainly assuming it isn’t- you don’t seem to think much of your ‘friend’

Show your friend this thread if you truly believe your right.

Do you think you are entitled to be told every little detail of her day and actions? Why would she! You don’t even know what activities the kid does as your friend didn’t specify she probably assumed she dosnt owe you an entire detailed explanation.

Daily - I can’t help but believe that Mum was offered no support, no parenting classes but rather a child caused extreme distress instead. Did you even get her to go to the dr to see if there’s a reason she napped so deeply she didn’t hear you at the door if indeed you did shout through and ring and knock a lot!

[bobstersmum]

This is one of the things I do hate about mn, interfering nosey do gooders that are holier than thou, telling tales on their so called friends. Op, mind your business it doesn't sound like there is an issue at all. The child is 3, goes to pre school most of the time, occasionally occupies itself while pregnant mummy has a nap. It's a non story

[PipGirl404]

OP do you have kids?

This annoys me. I don't know about anyone else but my DD is 3.5 and I wouldn't think twice about napping and letting her do what she wanted in the house. I've been strict with her from the get go and she's bright kid, she knows not to climb on anything and she wouldn't go sticking her fingers in sockets because she's not stupid. If I really needed a nap I'd have the tv on and tell her to wake me up if she needed food/juice. I don't remotely see the problem with that.

Also apparent "social worker" you can get right in the bin, refuse to believe you can remove children from a mothers care because she took a nap. It's a pretty well known fact it's difficult for social workers to actually remove children from houses for a lot more than someone taking a fucking nap.

[PerfectPenquins]

Bloody typos sorry!

[wendywhite]

Wow Yellow,
Can we be friends ?
You sound lovely!

[Pinkypieeyed]

Thanks for all of your comments it's been useful to see the different viewpoints. I do help my friend regularly (although haven't been able to as often as usual for a few weeks due to my own health/work/personal needs) and she has family support (her mum, husband and in-laws) although they are not there every day with her.
I know how exhausting it is when you are pregnant and with young children and get dozing on the sofa when you're knackered and the child is watching TV.
The stairgate/lack of a stair gate being used is the least of the worries to me. I don't use stairgates at home and only did for a relatively very short period of time/not at all for our second.
She's been over to mine many times for a cuppa and I've looked after her and the child for the day so she could snooze/relax on the sofa. I've also helped her at her home with pots, prepping food for tea, cleaning/tidying, hanging out clothes. Anything she's asked me to help with really. I don't see myself as an unsupportive friend. But I can't be there all the time.
I guess the thing that worries me is that she seems to be planning the sleeps and has told me in the past she goes to bed, although sometimes naps on sofa. I'll just have to talk to her about it. Thanks all :-)

[Enidthecat]

A)Ididn't remove the child. The judge did (the petition to the judge was temporary removal to investigate the injury as there were 4 suspects, one of whom lived in the family home). The judge agreed, but stated that following investigation, the children were not to be returned without returning to court (and several risk planning stages)due to mum sleeping.

B) yes, it's normal for a child to give a key to an adult who asks HOWEVER a child who is unable to make a risk assessment like that should not have unsupervised access to the key, to be giving it to an unknown person- I could have been a burglar or child abuser. Mum did not wake up and did not know and therefore was not able to protect the child

No you didn't make the final decision but presumably it was your decision to flag it up such an issue that the child needed removing.

If you think 3 year olds should be able to make a risk assessment I'm not sure you should be a social worker and should you really be giving details of cases on an open forum on the internet probably not

Sorry but every 3 year old I've ever met would give a key to an adult stranger because they're doing as they're told. When you're 3 adult = authority. We teach our children to be polite to people even strangers (ie nice lady in supermarket says hello and mummy says hello back so child learns we reply) you can try and enforce stranger danger and absolutely should but at 3 I imagine that's not an easy concept to grasp when everyday life contradicts that advice.

[BrokenWhiteStripes]

OP - you said that she’s your friend so just talk to her.

• is everything okay?
  
• you mentioned ... the other day and I’m a bit worried
  
• if there’s anything I can do to support you so you can get some rest, let me know
  

Ultimately there’s no judgement involved. You’re concerned because you care. Hopefully she’ll understand that. And if she doesn’t, I’m sure that eventually she will. Personally I’d rather express my concern than not because if anything happens the her child I’d be guilt ridden for not mentioning it. Don’t forget that something’s just slip by pregnancy or not. Not because we’re unattentive but because we’re human.

I saw a thread about the other day about someone’s son getting his shoe (not laces) trapped in the escalator. Had the mother not posted it, I genuinely wouldn’t have even thought of that happening. My point is it doesn’t do any harm to mention it. Just emphasise that it’s just because you care about her.

[iatethepies]

I often nap on the sofa when ds 6m has had a bad night with my 3yo sitting tucked into the back of my legs (terrible description) i feel if she moves. The only thing she could hurt herself on would be the stairs and that would happen whether I was awake or not because I don't shadow her around the house. All other dangers are either out of reach or secured.

Unless you are going to offer to help know for a fact the child is in danger keep your opinion to yourself.

[Rumpledfaceskin]

This is so dangerous. To be in another room for a few mins fine but to sleep? What is she thinking? I’m really shocked and I’m fairly relaxed about my dd being left to her own devices.

[dontbesillyhenry]

This place is mental at times.
In real life if people raise a genuine and valid concern for a child's safety they are advised to do something about it. In the parallel universe that is Mumsnet people are advised to look after the child themselves and 'keep their nose out' because happy mum= happy bubz innit

[BrokenWhiteStripes]

For posters thinking OP is over reacting or being nosy, 43,000 0-4 year olds having accidents in the home is nothing to ignore.

www.rospa.com/home-safety/advice/child-safety/accidents-to-children/

[AnachronisticCorpse]

I would actually be concerned if she’s going to bed. There is a world of difference between napping on the sofa and going upstairs to the bedroom, unless she’s in a small flat of course.

Is the 3yo just 3 or nearly 4?

[Enidthecat]

In the real world people talk to someone about an issue before assuming all sorts and posting it on the internet. If i was worried about my friend id be talking to my friend and seeing if I could help her or if not try and think of some solution.

[Oblomov18]

The child may not be unsafe. Depends on the child. Both of mine have always played for hours, watched tv, or played x box, and not touched anything dangerous.
Some children are naturally curious and mischievous. Some aren't.

[Unnoticed]

This sounds like a huge overreaction - the child is at nursery for 4 days and I imagine her partner is at home for the weekend. So we are left with one day where she naps whilst the child is there. Maybe that is day she naps on the sofa, rather than in bed, whilst her child plays in the same room.

The reality is you have no clue what is going on. Reporting to SS or the nursery is a stupid idea without at least speaking to her first.

[Rumpledfaceskin]

sorry but I agree with yellow. If you need to sleep you have to find other child care and if you can’t you don’t bloody leave a toddler roaming round the house. They are climbers, can open doors, unlock doors, open drawers. Why would you tread on eggshells and pretend you have ‘no judgement’? If this were my friend I would tell her straight that I think it’s dangerous and yes offer to help if poss.

[IncidentalAnarchist]

Absolutely astounded at all the ‘you should help’ posters. Do none of you work?? Much as I’d love to help an overtired friend I have my own family and work full time. I can not work to go to babysit a friends house during the day so that they can nap ffs!

[Unnoticed]

For posters thinking OP is over reacting or being nosy, 43,000 0-4 year olds having accidents in the home is nothing to ignore

Were all the parents asleep BrokenWhiteStripes?