I work at the BBC and I have the rage

[alltherageattheBBC]

The Humphrys/Sopel leak is the last straw. The dripping contempt and the fact that they're laughing at us and there is nothing I can do cos I need my job makes me feel so enraged I could weep.

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/12/john-humphrys-jokes-about-bbc-gender-pay-gap-in-leaked-off-air-recording

I'm sick of this attidute. Why isnt Gracie paid as well as Sopel? Because she's a woman and they think they're doing her a favour giving her the job at all. Yeah, they trot out the same old 'reasons'; previous salary (er, obvious flaw there in a discriminatory system), experience, profile blah blah.

for all the unconscious bias training, I've yet to meet a senior manager who appeared to reflect, question or examine their own actions.
They cut staff in £20 000 with about as much thought as they give to choosing a sandwich; the 'talent' pay is a different matter.

'Diverse' is anyone who doesn't tick the boxes of male, middle-class, privately educated, white. In my book that's normal, not different.

It's wrong, wrong, wrong and, as they never tire of reminding us when tightening up expenses or cutting low paid roles, it's public money.

Yup, you financed that cosy joking blokey banter. Total cost of a year of Humphrys and Sopel? Around £850 000.

but mostly

[Coyoacan]

The concept of the BBC is good, the old-boys network that runs it is what is wrong.

I think John Humphreys is an appalling interviewer and always has been. You nothing more at the end of an interview of his than you did at the beginning.

[mommybunny]

Amen lolaflores.

[100YearsOfVote]

I think there are lots of people like Op and myself who are usually in love with BBC, despite its flaws, but whose faith is now sorely tested.

This is very dangerous ground for the BBC to be on.

[alltherageattheBBC]

I don't know all the women you refer to so can't speak for them but I expect they need the job they have and the one after and direct action could risk one or both. You think managers are impressed by Gracie and what she's done? Good on her, she's done it anyway but she's a smart woman and took a calculated risk, others have different circumstances. Again, I don't know her and can't speak for her - this is my interpretation!

To be clear, Gracie resigned the role of China Editor, not her job, she continues to be employed by the BBC. The terminology is different but she was basically on secondment to the China role, so she stopped doing that and returned to her permanent role.

[herecomesthsun]

On the one hand, I certainly think the pay gap is unfair.

On the other hand,

• this was not meant to be broadcast so this would be complaining about a leaked conversation off air
  
• hearing the conversation might give a different impression in some respects to the typescript
  
• are people not allowed to discuss or chat about matters that concern them? Even in working up thoughts for a broadcast on a show that sets out to address difficult issues? How much censoring should be happening there?
  

So I think that effective redress of the pay difference should be made, but I am not about to complain about 2 men talking about it off air.

I think that John Humphreys pay should be brought in line to that of the most senior women doing a comparable role - but I would let him talk about it

[squishysquirmy]

Well yes mommybunny I know it would never happen!

I just don't like to see the finger pointed at women for not doing something which would hurt them financially and potentially cripple a career they presumably love. I applaud women who are willing to do that, but I don't think that not doing so means a woman doesn't care or is somehow hypocritical.

The expectation that senior women within the BBC should do so just seems to me to be another pressure plied on top of women, that men don't have to deal with. A man would be able to say he supports Grace, and would likely be applauded for being so supportive of women. A woman says she supports Grace, and people wonder why she doesn't resign too.

[LadyinCement]

Why would or should anyone resign? Would any of you resign from your job because of a perceived injustice against another member of staff? People don't work for fun, you know, they might just have some financial obligations

I think the whole BBC pay thing needs to be thoroughly overhauled. I was reading that never mind the presenters/correspondents, there's a whole completely bloated level of managers - a great many of whom are women - who are receiving salaries which are out of proportion to anything which could be achieved in the private sector.

I have worked in various tv companies (and BBC) - admittedly some years ago now - and the gravy train was unimaginable. Obviously ITV has slimmed down - actually been on a crash diet, more like - but I think the BBC is laden with self-importance and a sense of being untouchable.

[squishysquirmy]

I too am a fan of the BBC btw. I suspect the problem is far worse in other organisations, and in other industries, but that's not good enough; I don't want the BBC to be better than the worst, I want them to be better than this

[alltherageattheBBC]

lolaflores I hear you! Don't start me on the smug-fest that is radio 4 - not all the time but all too often.

I thought I'd gone back to the 1970s when they had Martin Jarvis reading Just William on New Years Eve. Why? Why? Just AWFUL.
Nothing to recommend it. Out of date, nostalgic, smug tosh.

But that's a matter of taste and I am just about willing to believe somebody out there was happy to hear it . . . and enjoy GQT and . . . Oh, different thread. Very different argument!

[DelphiniumBlue]

Don't know where to start.....
BBC should be promoting best practice and leading the way in equality and diversity. They bare a public service with a public duty.
John Humphreys ... What a tosser . Quite apart from the current issue, as an interviewer/ presenter he's incompetent. He often seems to fail to understand the issue in hand ,or his brief, and like a child keeps making the same ( irrelevant) points to the interviewees, its like he's point scoring rather than actually interviewing.
Hope he' gets sacked for this. There's no excuse for him to behave like this, and he know full well there's no such thing as "off air" when you are in broadcasting. It wasn't accidental, he's so arrogant he didn't care if he was overheard.
Is he the " talent" the BBC thinks it is forced to pay for? The talent that forces it to lie and illegally discriminate so that it can " compete" in the marketplace?
Sooner he goes the better.

[Haffdonga]

I do like the PP's idea of a mass switch off. It would need to be during the Today programme when JH is on.

I'm in a minority here in that I actually like listening to JH but I'm baffled why he should be allowed to continue to broadcast when Jane Garvey and the others have been silenced. Total bare-faced double standards.

[DeputyBrennan]

I too am sure the gender pay gap issue is every bit as bad in a great number of companies and organisations, including my own employers. However the inequality at the BBC specifically is now public knowledge and they can’t not address it strongly and swiftly. They can’t allow the very figures who are benefiting most from the disparity (overpaid, middle-aged, male ‘institutions’/dinosaurs) to be seen by the public to be treating it as a bit of a joke.

From a slightly cynical perspective, wouldn’t it benefit the BBC to tackle this now, be seen as ‘pioneers’ and on the right side
of history, and then congratulate themselves for all eternity?

[lolaflores]

herecomesthesun I wonder would JH have discussed, chatted about his feelings concerning the pay gap with a woman though? Do you think the tone might have been different?
I don't think he was having a chin wag. He was being his high handed self without the capacity to imagine another persons situation.

[raglansleeve]

I thought Sara Montague was resigning over the pay issue?

While I agree very strongly that women working within the BBC should have pay parity, I don't know how they should deal with the pay of the 'talent'. Obviously people like Humphreys, Graham Norton etc will have agents negotiating their packages, it's not just down to them being on a particular pay scale. It must be quite a difficult thing to measure, not just clerical grade 4 style.

I absolutely love about 80% of Radio 4 - alltherage, I quite like Martin Jarvis reading Just William!

I've noticed a few programmes coming in which I 'm guessing are there to try and attract younger listeners - things like Short Cuts and The Untold. I'm finding them a bit navel gazey tbh.

To me, R4 should be about absolutely world class current affairs, good drama, science programmes (things like The Life Scientific, Inside Science and many of the health based programmes are excellent), history, the natural world, with a smattering of lighter offerings such as DID.

I would be upset if the formula changed too much, and having listened to speech radio in many countries, I think we have it pretty good here.

[QueenThisTime]

I'm a big R4 listener and like most of it (although I loathe The Moral Maze with a passion) but Humphrys really bloody gets on my tit ends every time he's on. He's a terrible interviewer, doesn't listen, doesn't apply rational thought processes and clearly pisses interviewees off. He should be out for that reason alone.

When the Carrie Gracie thing hit the headlines I was trying to work out who were the international editors earning loads more, then I realized obviously Sopel. There is no way he is working harder or at a higher level than her. Their jobs are equally important. I am so fucking frustrated on her behalf.

Companies/organisations want to save money and yet giving men massive undeserved pay rises seems to somehow be essential. I cannot work out what goes through people's heads. If those men want to resign because they aren't getting an extra 300K, let them - there will always be a queue of talented women like Gracie prepared to do their jobs for decent but not ridiculous pay. Maybe even other, less egotistical men too.

[QueenThisTime]

Oh god raglan side issue I know, but I also HATE The Untold. Not a bad concept at all, but the weird, breathy delivery and sad/spooky music that's like you're actually listening to a scary drama. Oh do shut up. there was another programme like that too recently about education and the age of a child compared to others in the year. An important topic but the presenter was ridiculously dramatic and it also had stupid "spooky" music I want rational sensible, intelligent, witty discussion, and the Archers. Not crappy "drama" style delivery in an attempt to make things more high-impact and moving, I'm perfectly capable of being moved by the facts thanks. That is a tendency that's really starting to bug me.

[raglansleeve]

Tbh Queen, I didn't understand WHY Grace Dent had to be on The Untold - the producer who obviously did most of the work could have done the voiceovers - saved GD's salary and given it to Carrie Gracie instead..........

Another one that gives me the irrits is 'Don't Log Off' - half the programme is given over to the presenter saying things like 'Hi Joe in Guatemala - what time is it over there? Have I woken you up? Oh, sorry about that.....'

[derxa]

I love The Untold Radio 4 makes me a lot and not in a good way.

[derxa]

*makes me laugh a lot

[alltherageattheBBC]

Oh God the weird Grace Dent delivery! It's not just me then. Terrible. She's been very badly advised imho.

[borntobequiet]

YANBU.
I emailed the Today programme earlier and thanks to the link upthread have copied it as a complaint.

[lolaflores]

drexa The Untold reminds me of National Public Radio in the US which I used to listen to when I lived in Texas. to me it is a brilliant example of what the BBC could be aiming for. Really wide and inteersting ranges of programmes made by loads of different people to engage everyone with ideas that are Thought provoking, funny, informative etc.

[2rebecca]

Humphreys is iritating but the Today programme is too long for the news that they have. They regurgitate the same stuff rather than discussing other world events or more financial/ technology news. Brexit is always bad, minor political stuff like the reshuffle get done to death as does speculation and leaking of what x is going to say today/ tomorrow rather than waiting for stuff to actually happen so you get the same news repeated in a "here's what he's going to say, here's him saying it, here's what he said" sort of way. I now mainly read the economist for news, although that is biased in favour of big business and the finance industry.

[LadyinCement]

What on earth is wrong with Martin Jarvis reading Just William?!!!

I would immediately pull the plug on all "comedy" - the sort broadcast at 6.30pm. Listen, guys, it just ain't funny.

And quit with the attacks on "white middle-aged men" (I am not one!). Some of these employees may indeed be sexist dinosaurs, but I can guarantee that the BBC has an over-representation of "Paulas" (see another thread for full details) who are very important senior managers in charge of... er, no one is quite sure.

I think it's rather hopeful to imagine that if every white man was cleared out of the BBC then some kind of shangri la would exist with equality reigning. I can tell you that it's dog eat dog in that organisation and that people of any creed, colour, sex or age would gladly knife you in the back .

[lolaflores]

Martin Jarvis is a 76 year old man being a young boy, in a posh accent getting up to jolly japes. Quite a bit to work through there i think