to let you know how men use the Equality Act to undermine women's spaces

[pisacake]

This is Liam. Liam was a 17-year-old Harry Potter fan (photo here from his Twitter).

twitter.com/iamLilyTM/status/639376063655739392

Liam doesn't appear to have too much interest in running, but nonetheless got very upset that there are women-only runs, in addition to the thousands that are open to men.

He thinks this is similar to apartheid, or Rosa Parks being told to go to the back of the bus. twitter.com/iamLilyTM/status/637324189733666816 (August 2015)

Being kept out annoys Liam. (And a lot of other MRAs alike who get REALLY angry at not being allowed to join, despite their being literally thousands of other places to run.)

But wait! An idea! If Liam says he is a girl, he will be able to go wherever he likes including all those women-only runs he was so cruelly rebuffed from.

After all, at one time the Race for Life was able to be kept relatively man-free, as Cancer Research said:

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120528181520/raceforlife.cancerresearchuk.org/utilities/faqs/who-can-enter/index.html" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20120528181520/raceforlife.cancerresearchuk.org/utilities/faqs/who-can-enter/index.html

"Under the Gender Recognition Act 2004 we are happy to accept entries from individuals who possess a female birth certificate or gender recognition certificate. However, as Race for Life is a female-only event we have a promise and responsibility to our female supporters to ensure our Race for Life events are represented by women only. Therefore, if you do not have either a gender recognition certificate or a female birth certificate, we are afraid you will not be able to participate in Race for Life. "

But this didn't last long! The Equality Act 2010 came along and it said

"A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process [of changing gender]". So anyone who is even THINKING about changing gender is protected, and you better be careful about crossing them.

So Raceforlife quickly deleted the requirement for a GRC, and just to confirm this.

twitter.com/CharlotteMedler/status/604486954785357824

"Hey @raceforlife what is your opinion on pre-op women running? Does having a wang mean I can't do it? Let me know, pls."

The reply:
"hello, transgender women are welcome to take part in our events, so we'd love to have you :)"

Message has got through loud and clear to Liam, a few months later Liam says he is a girl called Lily (this declaration isn't really accompanied by any action, though he has had one Gender clinic appointment, where he got some handouts about hormones).

He tells his school. Some people, including his younger sister, are unhappy about his behaviour.

But not to worry, he looks up 'solicitor' on Google, and finds a firm of solicitor who represent teenage Harry Potter fans wanting access to women & girls spaces, completely for free! www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/this-trans-teen-threatened-her-school-with-legal-action-to-w Awesome! Free lawyers!Totally no consequences!

Emboldened, he moves on, with his MRA activity, getting a woman kicked kicked out of a neighbouring constituency Labour party:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5087503/All-Labour-officials-local-committee-resign.html

Then he's elected women's officer in his own CLP.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenager-lily-madigan-voted-in-as-a-labour-women-s-officer-mwchkhzq8

Then people point out that he seems to own a Twitter account with blowjob, rape, Jimmy Savile & curry jokes. He says it's fake then it's pointed out it's dated 2013 so unlikely to be, and finally he blames his younger brother for the acocunt and says his family is racist, sexist and homophobic and that's why he has moved on from them.

www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/transgender-labour-womens-officer-rochester-817234

Said brother is not impressed and calls him out publicly for throwing him under the bus

twitter.com/madigan_smurf/status/933760359810428928

Lily/Liam is a big fan of Jeremy Corbyn, who for his own part has said that, as a genuine 100% authentic transwoman, Lily/Liam can do whatever he wants. www.facebook.com/MedwayLabour/posts/1506650112756340

As if all these weren't enough, he's now being sponsored for a Women in Leadership programme in by Tris Osborne, a (male, natch) Labour candidate in Luton. twitter.com/cllrtrisosborne/status/934368405993508864

Rosa Parks eat your heart out eh? Look who's got the last laugh now! Silly women wanting a race without men in it!

[FlaviaAlbia]

I suppose one obvious problem is a trans woman going on a reclaim the night march and demanding women centre trans woman in their feminism..
Yeah, no thanks. I'll keep centering women.

[sagamartha]

I suppose one obvious problem is a trans woman going on a reclaim the night march and demanding women centre trans woman in their feminism

What about a transwoman going on a Reclaim the Night march to help show their support and to raise awareness of the issues of VAWG without the demands to centre transwomen?

Because of the concern about male violence?

[Beerincomechampagnetastes]

Thank you for this thread.

The Nationalist is very clearly baiting members of the mumsnet community. Please don’t feed him.

The outcome he’s hoping for is that a very balanced intelligent thread with insightful information and fact based opinion will descend into an ignorant and uninformed display of exclusion.

The goal is to validate the line that says anyone who disagrees is phobic.

[AlternativeTentacle]

However, you've already alienated too many people, so our support now comes at a price.

What price is that then? Back in the kitchen? Unfettered access to all vaginas at will? Rape and pillage if you should so wish?

Get ye ta fuck.

[RedToothBrush]

Do you know what time the troll farm clocking on time is?

It's 5am funnily enough.

Just for future reference.

[Shestolethewitchesredshoes]

I don't understand transgender equality, gender identify or this new respecting of pronouns movement. I really don't. I fully support people being able to live freely however they choose to. Their sexuality, identify, gender is no business of mine.

But I do worry that in all of these laws and steps that society is taking to ensure the rights and freedoms of these groups of people is going to impede on the rights and freedoms of biological women, who identify as women, as her and who have female genitalia.

I'm a woman. I want to be referred to as her, she or other female pronouns. I was born a biological woman and have female genitalia.

I don't want a man to be elected in any role that represents women. I don't want men to win awards that were meant for women only. I don't want unisex changing rooms and toilets.

If now people only have say that they identify as a woman to be free to go into women's only spaces, this paves the way for any man to go into women's only spaces. Which makes me feel very uncomfortable. Obviously not all men will have good and pure intentions and I do worry about women's safely and rights if this continues.

[GreenPurpleRed]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think women should be in polling stations. Women generally are too irrational to vote properly, and this is borne out by history

I think you should fuck right off with your inane shit stirring. You are so clearly trolling that you are coming across as a pathetic wee man.

Is there not somewhere else you should be or is real life a bit too scary for you

[sagamartha]

The outcome he’s hoping for is that a very balanced intelligent thread with insightful information and fact based opinion will descend into an ignorant and uninformed display of exclusion

And comments such as:

""I hope the Lily lot do get what they want, actually. I hope they do very much attract the attention of straight men. I very much doubt it'll be in the form they want or expect though. I think they'll get kicked to fuck, and it will serve them right. Give it time""

[AlternativeTentacle]

I do think it is quite sad that men thinking that women wanting equality is so unfair to them that they want a little bit of that 'equality' for themselves.

Men don't need to access funds for women in leadership in the first place because they are already in a stronger position than most women. They just want MORE advantage because they cannot stand the thought that women might take a minute piece of their pie.

[ButchyRestingFace]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think women should be in polling stations. Women generally are too irrational to vote properly, and this is borne out by history

That leaves us in a quandry.

Men are too violent to be let out of the house, and this is borne out by history.

[ferntwist]

Who thinks that Lily will still be a ‘woman’ in 15 years time? I certainly don’t, any more than emos and goths stay like that into middle age.
We’re seeing a fad, social contagion. He’s a chancer riding this particular social wave.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I read Lily's letter to the Labour party asking for the women's officer to be suspended. What struck me was how badly reasoned and badly written it was - I'd expect a 19 year old to manage far better than that.? If nothing else this would suggest they should not be represented anybody - how can you represent people if you can't put forward a coherent argument?

[FlaviaAlbia]

What about a transwoman going on a Reclaim the Night march to help show their support and to raise awareness of the issues of VAWG without the demands to centre transwomen?

I don't see any problems there. I have no issue with transwoman protesting male violence. It's when the trans activists claim that women are responsible for the harm tans women suffer at the hands of men and should budge up and give them whatever they want that I have a problem.

Like the transwomen on the Times article about Lily who are pointing out the problems with the appointment, they're allies in this.

[DawnMumsnet]

Morning all,

As you can imagine, we've had a lot of reports in about TheNationalist's posts on this thread.

We think that Beerincomechampagnetastes has pretty much summed it up by saying: "The Nationalist is very clearly baiting members of the mumsnet community. Please don’t feed him."

We've escorted this poster from the building now and will be removing the inflammatory posts.

[AlternativeTentacle]

We've escorted this poster from the building now

Now that really will annoy the sad sack. Escorted out the building, by mere women? Who do they think they are?

[ButchyRestingFace]

I read Lily's letter to the Labour party asking for the women's officer to be suspended. What struck me was how badly reasoned and badly written it was - I'd expect a 19 year old to manage far better than that.?

Probably missed too much school when off consulting solicitors/courting publicity about his “right” to wear the girls school uniform and access their toilets/changing rooms.

I’m a bit meh about the whole uniform thing, admittedly.

[catgirl1976]

TheNationalist I appreciate you think you have intellectually demonstrated the left eating itself but your argument is incorrect

The reason this is not the same as black people wanting access to white only spaces is this

Oppressed Group (in your example black people) want the same rights as Privileged Group (in you example white people)

Firstly, the current trans-agenda is not fighting for equal access to education, they are not fighting for the right to vote, they are not being kept as slaves, they are not being denied the right to marry, they are not being forced to sit on a different part of the bus.

To equate not being allowed access into a space that is segregated by biological sex (e.g women's prisons or refuges) for reasons of keeping a group that is vulnerable due it's biology (women) to any of these things is naive at best and offensive at worst.

The other reason your argument fails is because in all of the examples above we have Oppressed Group (black people / gay people) fighting for the same rights as Privileged Group (white people / heterosexual people)

However here we have something different. Privileged Group (men) claiming they ARE Oppressed Group (women). Privileged Group (men) not only claim that they are Oppressed Group (women) but that original member of Oppressed Group are actually a THIRD group (cis women).

So in your example this would play out as

Privileged Group (lets say white people) claim they ARE Oppressed Group (lets say black people). They then go on to claim that biologically black people are a THIRD group (let's pretend they call them cis-blacks).

This third group (cis blacks) becomes lower down the pecking order than Privileged Group (white people) and New Oppressed Group (white people claiming they are black people) as the new New Oppressed Group retain all the privilege of their original group (they can still go to a white school or vote just like transwomen can still go to Eton or inherit) and now the third group cannot push for or protect their own rights and have to accept members of the privileged group into spaces that have traditionally excluded them for reasons of safety and protection.

The extreme transagenda is not arguing for the same rights as the privileged group (men) as it already has them. Therefore it is in no way comparable to black people arguing for the right to vote or attend school or gay people arguing for the right to get married. They already have these rights.

They (the extremists) are not arguing for the right to a safe space. The idea of unisex changing rooms (which no one seems to have any issue with) is dismissed as not good enough. They don't want a safe space, they want women's spaces. But in demanding these they erase the very spaces they want access to as under self-identity these now become open to anyone, including the very men transpeople claim they are threatened by in male spaces. So this cannot be about a safe space as allowing anyone who feels like it to enter a women's safe space (prison / refuge / changing room) immediately stops it from being safe and renders the whole alleged point of the exercise null and void.

So your examples are really not comparable.

[Battleax]

We've escorted this poster from the building now

Hopefully you tripped on the stairs and unfortunately lost your grip @DawnMumsnet

[ButchyRestingFace]

Hopefully you tripped on the stairs and unfortunately lost your grip @DawnMumsnet smile

Rumour has it the prisoner attempted to flee and had to be tazed repeatedly from multiple angles.

[TreacleFarl]

catgirl I think I might have to print your post out and carry it around with me.

I'm always shocked by the amount of vitriol anyone receives if we so much as question this. It's really worrying. We are all expected to just sit here and witness the slow erosion of women's rights. In fact, not just watch but applaud, support and embrace it.

[Battleax]

Rumour has it the prisoner attempted to flee and had to be tazed repeatedly from multiple angles.

It happens 🤷🏻‍♀️

[catgirl1976]

I hope the tide is turning Treacle

I started off not knowing a lot about this and vaguely thinking it was about rights for trans people and of course I want ALL people to have human rights but I didn't realise it is not about human rights or equal rights it is about taking away women's rights and is misogynistic and homophobic at its core.

[TreacleFarl]

Yes, catgirl. I was exactly the same. At the start I thought, well of course everyone should have the same rights but slowly it has become very clear that this isn't about equal rights at all. Although I'm not usually able to articulate myself well enough so will definitely be using your example in future conversations!


I really hope you're right and that more and more women will realise the heavy implications that this will have on them in the future.

[GreenPurpleRed]

Well said @catgirl

[BigDeskBob]

"What about a transwoman going on a Reclaim the Night march to help show their support and to raise awareness of the issues of VAWG without the demands to centre transwomen?"

From the reclaim the night website: Reclaim The Night is a women-only march. Men who would like to support the event are encouraged to join the Men’s Vigil, before joining us at the mixed rally.