AIBU to worry about little boy?

[KarmaStar]

Hello,
I would like sensible advice please.
Our house is a semi detached with our back doors very close to each other,just a fence separating us.
Our young neighbours are a lovely couple who very much keep themselves to themselves which we are fine with.
When their little boy refuses to stay in bed at bed time he is taken outside and told to stay there until he behaves and he hammers on the locked door screaming and crying.after about ten minutes he is allowed back in.
When he misbehaves we can hear mum shouting through the walls.she tells him to get a bag and pack all his stuff,his clothes and toys as he has to go for being naughty.he is screaming and clearly very distressed.at other times I hear her really bellow at him that she doesn't like or want him and that he is a horrible boy and he can get out of the house for good.
The majority of the time they are a lovely family but when she lets rip the little boy(3/4 yr old)is screaming in fear and distress,it's heart breaking.
I feel terrible for writing about them as most of the time they appear like a normal loving family.should I just continue to ignore these incidents?
He used to be a sunny natured child but now is often angry,breaking things and shouting a lot.
I don't know if I should say or do anything or just mind my own business.

[MyDearAnnie]

Mirai

You don't 'get them to stop' as such.

You seek out support. You ask for help. You go to the GPs, just in case it's something else. You speak to the HV/school nurse. You ask other parents what they do. You seek out support groups.

[MiraiDevant]

The problem is that the prevailing attitude is "abuse", "evil" "report" so it is very unlikely that a parent will tell anyone. Meanwhile at the end of a long day when the screaming won't stop and you have been trying to deal with a child for hours and hours you can see why parents run out of ideas. You can also see why they smile and hide the difficulties they are facing while they ope the boy will just grow out of it.

The "support" isn't really there and now that we have a much more fractured community - it is difficult to find. It is even harder when the children become teenagers,

[MiraiDevant]

By the way - in the "old days" it was worse, much worse for kids - but for different reasons - so we have progressed.

[AnxiousAngela]

Karmastar,
Didn't you put a post on a few days ago about being a police officer with 20 years service!??

[BitchQueenofAngmar]

Have you reported it OP? Poor little boy.

[KalaLaka]

I put DD in the garden. Have also done it around bedtime. Sometimes I run out of options when she's screaming, shouting and refusing to do what she's meant to be doing.

I think you'd be so much better off asking if you can babysit for a couple of hours a week. Offer help, they're struggling.

[Italiangreyhound]

MiraiDevant "Just a question. The parents are at the end of their tether."

We do not know this at all, it may be the case. We cannot assume they are only doing this because they are at the end of their tether.

"The boy is screaming and smashing and will not go to bed. He isn't listening. How do you get a child to stop?"

I've done a lot of parenting courses, we explore the child's behaviour, why they might be acting he way they are. We look at rewards (like behaviour charts) and consequences (punishments that are in line with behaviour. However, usually there might be a reason the child is not wanting to stay in bed and if you can work through this you may find he will go. E.G. he may be afraid to go to bed so a night light or re-arranging the room may make him feel better - or maybe he is over stimulated with TV and video games before bed. There could be lots of reasons and those need to be explored.

"You can't hit him or force him and talking isn't working." How can you possibly know exactly what they are trying and if he is already afraid of his parents he may well not be listening when they are talking.

"I am genuinely interested in what is the advice" there is a lot of advice out there but the best advice begins with the child (IMHO) putting one's self in the child's position and working out what may be going on for them first.

[Italiangreyhound]

MiraiDevant "The problem is that the prevailing attitude is "abuse", "evil" "report" so it is very unlikely that a parent will tell anyone." The point is one asks for help before one starts doing this. Or one does it once or twice, realises that this is a terrible thing to do and looks for alternatives.

"...when the screaming won't stop and you have been trying to deal with a child for hours and hours you can see why parents run out of ideas." If a child is genuinely screaming for hours and hours I would be talking to the health visitor or doctor, as someone else said, and I would be looking to see if the child was in actual discomfort. I'd be thinking about possible autism and some sort of mental or emotional torment or possibly a food allergy causing stomach upsets etc.

Re "You can also see why they smile and hide the difficulties they are facing while they ope the boy will just grow out of it." No, I cannot, I have had lots of issues with my kids, my dd is most likely on the spectrum and is dyslexic, and my son is adopted. I've asked for help from anyone who could give it and I've had help which has made life better.

Re "The "support" isn't really there and now that we have a much more fractured community - it is difficult to find. It is even harder when the children become teenagers." This is only partially true. There is support, we are having help with our dd through CAMHS and we have had a post adoption support for our son. But yes, it is hard to get, you do have to look and ask and be tenacious.

KalaLaka how old is your child. If they are 3 or 4 like the child in the opening post, please think about what you are doing. Please look for help and get it. If your child is a lot older you know your days of being able to force them into the garden are numbered before they stop accepting this unfair treatment.

I am sure the OP could offer to help but I think the first thing the OP needs to do is get this abuse logged with social services or NSPCC.

[KalaLaka]

She is 10. I have sought help for possible asd/pda/anxiety. Paediatrician said there was no help available and did not see that there was a problem. There most certainly is a problem.

Unfair treatment? It's better than me losing my temper and screaming at her, which is what happens if I have to endure it all day. She's safe in the garden, it also allows her fresh air and time to calm down. I'm rather low on options.

People say to get help, but there is no help!

[FenceSitter01]

When their little boy refuses to stay in bed at bed time he is taken outside and told to stay there until he behaves and he hammers on the locked door screaming and crying.after about ten minutes he is allowed back in

What time does this happen?

How close is the house that you can hear this conversation?

[WhatIsThePointOfANYTHING]

Report it.
It’s wrong.

As a child I remember many occasions where I misbehaved and was told to pack my bag and wait for the naughty children’s bus to collect me. I believed it.
I was also taken out once bag packed again and told I was going to be left on a brodge down a small alley. DM then broke down and took me to get sweets but it was really damaging for me.
On another occasion I was told if I behaved like a dog I could be treated like one and was locked in the garden with a bowl of water. I knocked it over as was angry (I think I was maybe 4?) and then I remember the fear of what if I needed that water to drink and crying about it

These sort of things damage children

[Naughty1205]

I don't know how on earth you can say they are a lovely couple, with what you know! This is just awful to read. I hope you have reported it by now.

[Naughty1205]

I don't know how on earth you can say they are a lovely couple, with what you know! This is just awful to read. I hope you have reported it by now.

[Italiangreyhound]

KalaLaka I am sorry if I used the word unfair treatment and you feel that is wrong. Sending a ten year old into the garden is not the same as locking a 3 or 4 year old out in the garden at night.

Your GP sounds like Nob head! Is there another GP at the surgery you can speak to? You can self refer to PCAMHS/CAMHS or you can get a referral throught GP or school, is possibly health visitor. You may not have seen health visitor for years but the benefit is that HVs are meant to Cate for the whole family so your needs should be taken into consideration.

I am sorry if I sounded harsh, this thread is about a 3/4 year old. Your situation is a bit different. Can I ask if you have other kids and are in a couple or parenting alone. This could influence your getting help.

[Italiangreyhound]

care for the whole family..

[Roomba]

I'm not prone to internet hyperbole but reading this has just actually made me cry. My DS is this age and yes, he could try the patience of a saint some days, but he would be heartbroken if he was treated like this. I am a far from perfect parent, but this is just awful and needs to be reported asap. Poor boy.

[bigbluebus]

One of our neighbours used to lock a her child out in the back garden late at night with the child banging on the back door to be let in. I didn't witness it personally but one of our neighbours did as they overlooked her garden.

Needless to say the children have been removed from her as this was just the tip of the iceberg.

[Winterhotchocolate]

Don’t feel bad about reporting this ‘lovely couple’. Abusers are often very ‘lovely’ and charismatic towards people who might uncover the abuse. It’s a front so that you won’t believe it or report it when abuse is uncovered. That’s why these things can go on for years unchallenged. Hopefully with intervention now this can be resolved. If it’s let continue imagine how this could escalate as the boy gets older.

Report it OP and let this boy know that someone took time to be concerned for him.

[MiraiDevant]

ItalianGreyhound - interesting post and useful too. And of course I don't know the parents' state of mind - just giving a hypothesis really.

In theory the help is there but in reality it isn't. Meeting after meeting, referral after referral. Waiting 18 months for a CAMHS appointment only for them to do nothing. GPs are overwhelmed - all they can do is refer.

Just read the boards on here. If your child has a diagnosis it is easier only in so far as there is more of a route to follow and you get priority. If there is no diagnosis there really isn't the help.

A campaign that I'd like to see on MN would be for real help - especially with teens. There are parents on here who have called the police, begged for help, spent hours with the school and still they have to live with a very disturbed young adult whilst trying to protect themselves and their younger kids. They just get judged.

I am not defending what the parents do. And I think that what you said "ItalianGreyhound* about starting with the the child is extremely good advice but it isn't easy.

You may well come across well, articulate, caring etc when you ask for help but if you don't? The fear of judgement and of being misunderstood by a system that does not "like" people like you must be overwhelming.

*MyDearAnnie" - I know what you are saying is right but again I don't think it is easy.
I'd be interested to hear from a GP on this.

Thanks for answering my post though. Discussion and information is so valuable.
(Again - just to be clear I am not the parent of a toddler)

[MiraiDevant]

And to the OP the best thing in my view would be to get to know the neighbours, see what you can do, encourage them to seek support themselves, (much more likely to accept it that way), and if then you feel the SS should be involved report them.

[KalaLaka]

italian it wasn't my Gp, he was very supportive. I waited 8 months for the referral and the paediatrician said this. I need to do a parenting course (NICE guidelines) then apply for camhs through school. The course I need does not run in my city. I cannot access it in neighbouring towns, as illegible.

School cannot help: no education or behaviour problems in school . Can't self refer to camhs, which is actually on the brink of collapse here. I have contacted charities: no luck yet.

I persevere.

Most of the time, I am calm, say the right things... but I break down and shout sometimes and I hate myself for this, I do. But it's impossibly hard. I am no longer a lone parent and I have other children.

This couple could be exactly like me. I would despair if SS were called. OP should talk and offer real support in the first instance, in my opinion.

[Efnisien]

Poor boy my mum actually did throw our clothes in a bin bag when I was around seven years old and threw me and my sister out (she was six).We were horribly neglected due to her alcoholism.We were taken into care after reports from a neighbour.I'm in my forties now with three boys of my own.I can't comprehend how she could do this to two small girls,it has stuck with me throughout and is a constant reminder how NOT to parent.I'm with everyone else on this,please report it,for him.

[AnxiousAngela]

I agree with reporting however I'm surprised as a police officer with 20 years service, you aren't aware of the correct line of procedure in dealing with possible abuse

[Misspollyhadadollie]

Why nspcc out of interest? Why not straight to social services?

[lou1221]

If this is true, the little boy needs safeguarding, the family are obviously not coping whether its mh issues or anything else. As a serving police officer for over 20 years, you are obviously aware of the procedures, although you have been working in the hotel industry for year's too, according to the pyjamas in hotel thread.