To think Prince George will never be King?

[SerfTerf]

Or if he is, the next generation won't be?

We were talking about it at lunch. I just have the strong feeling now that the monarchy will fizzle out at some point in the next 50-100 years.

It's not an active "want" just a notion.

Two of us talking earlier felt similarly but the other three were aghast.

So, AIBU?

[EdithWeston]

Yes, annulment means the situation is that grounds were found for the marriage to be declared void - it exists in both the law of the land and in church law (both CofE and RC, though the religious version and whose consent is needed can vary a bit).

To have it annulled under English law would indeed mean that the offspring were born outside wedlock (as legally the marriage never existed). Illegitimacy doesn't matter for most things nowadays, except the sometimes the heritability of titles. Including succession to the throne, from which the Princes William and Harry would be excluded.

The line of succession would then have been Charles (and offspring from any future legal marriage), Andrew, Beatrice, Eugenie, Edward, James, Louise, Anne, Peter, Savannah, Isla, Zara, Mia

(The changes to priority for succession of female issue only applied to those born after its enactment)

[Lweji]

Can you link to the law on that? Civil and CoE.

[meditrina]

Lweji In England it's sections 11 and 12 (I think) of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973.

Marriages are considered valid unless proved otherwise. You can have an annulment if the marriage was void (one or both partner under age, too closely related, or married to someone else) - it never existed legally, but you may need the certificate to prove that.

Also if voidable - grounds are insufficient consent (mental capacity, not sober, coerced), non-consummation (inability or wilful refusal), the carrying of an STD by one party unbeknownst to the other, woman pregnant with a child other than the husband's without his knowledge.

For both you apply for a nullification to the courts, much as you would for divorce but the petition is for a decree if nullity.

[Riversleep]

Lweji As far as I understand, Ireland has a non political president. They are the Head of State and Guardian of the Constitution, but as far as I am aware, they are meant to be non political, even if they are initially from a political party. From my limited knowledge of it, they seem to basically have the same role as the Queen, but they are elected. I don't think it will happen here, but if we have a monarchy, then the rules of succession are the rules of succession. You can't pick and choose who you want. That was the point I was making.

[Lweji]

I meant about what happens to the children of annulled marriages.

Riversleep

What?

[Riversleep]

If annulment would make William and Harry illegitimate and Henry VIII marriage to Catherine of Aragon was annuled, how come Mary I was Queen? I think that proves that they can and will do what they want, so as unhappy as some people ( not me) might be about Camilla and Charles' divorce, he will be King, and she will be his consort, whether Princess Consort or still Duchess of Cornwall or whatever title she wishes to use. TPTB would have been thinking about this since their marriage.

[Riversleep]

Sorry that was to your message a few pages ago about a non political head of state.

[Lweji]

There's some confusion here.

For Catholics:
www.aboutcatholics.com/beliefs/children-of-an-annulled-marriage/

"Canon 1137 of The Code of Canon Law states that “The children conceived or born of a valid or putative marriage are legitimate.” Canon 1061 of the Code of Canon Law states that “An invalid marriage is called putative if it has been celebrated in good faith by at least one of the parties, until both parties become certain of its nullity”. A putative marriage is a marriage in which at least one of the parties considered valid at the time of the marriage even though it was later declared invalid and annulled. Therefore an annulment has no bearing on the status of the legitimacy of the children within the Church."

Church annulments

US law:
www.losangelescriminallawyers.com/is-a-child-considered-to-be-illegitimate-if-the-marriage-is-annulled/

"Just as a divorce does not make children of a marriage illegitimate, neither will an annulment."

I can't find anything for the UK, and not for CoE, though.

[Lweji]

they are meant to be non political

I think you mean partisan.

[Offred]

Mary was catholic, she was removed from the line of succession by her brother Edward and, with support from the Catholics deposed lady Jane Grey and executed her.

That's how she became queen and she restored the catholic faith.

Things were quite different in the 16th century!

What I am arguing is that how Charles' marriage to Camilla was planned; the civil marriage without the Queen in attendance gives us some insight into the difficult constitutional issues attached to Charles being King and this leads me to believe that he may abdicate in order to allow the unencumbered William to succeed him.