School makes children clean if they talk in class?

[Whynotme99]

What are your thoughts on this? It seems to be a regular occasion in our school, children who say something in one particular class without raising their hand are made to wash windows in break time. Mine have not done it yet (!) but they talk about it. Aibu to think this is not acceptable. This is secondary school.

[Ethylred]

Christ, in my school several centuries ago we had competitive cleaning. No brooms were supplied, we used pieces of paper in inventive ways instead.

[strawberrygate]

I take it Elendon is taking the piss? please please tell me she is

[AwaywiththePixies27]

we had competitive cleaning.

So did we. I remember me and my mate beaming with pride when we was finally allowed into the hallowed staffroom to wash the pots.

[crumpet]

Dd had to help clear the lunch hall as part of her detention - wiping tables etc. She had earned it, and it did her no harm.

[Whynotme99]

Ok. Thank you for all the comments. I just don't see how it's constructive to make a teenager wash windows for talking. They lose break time when they can talk and go back to class wanting to talk even more. No?

[charlestonchaplin]

I think it's pretty standard in many schools in the developing world for students to do a fair bit of cleaning. My parents paid top whack (compared to fees elsewhere in the country, anyway) for my secondary education and the school was very sought after but it didn't stop us having to clean our classrooms and dorms, every day except Sunday.

We got marked on it too, and on Saturdays we were meant to do a more intensive clean including scrubbing the floors. We cheated by sweeping the floors with soapy water, then clean water, but once one girl who was campaigning strongly to be house captain did indeed produce actual scrubbing brushes and we had to get down on our hands and knees. We were not impressed.

If the cleaning wasn't up to standard the house mistress had words with the house captain who had words with the room heads who had words with us. I remember one room head threatening us with lights-on at the official time of 5.30am instead of the 6am we had become accustomed to as we were, according to her, becoming sloppy.

[LellyMcKelly]

I think it's a brilliant idea. They get to learn the consequences of their actions and the school gets a bit of cleaning done. If they don't want to clean windows then they know what to do. People talking in class is disruptive to everyone else. It's like community service. What's not to like?

[Wheresthattomoibabber]

Punishment isn't meant to be fun.

[AwaywiththePixies27]

They lose break time when they can talk and go back to class wanting to talk even more. No?

No. They should know not to talk in class by their age. Are you sure your not daily mail sad faces mum? Even my 8yo ASD son with the mental age of a 3yo knows not to talk in class.

What do you mean by constructive? What would you rather the school had your DC do? It was a punishment. Do you punish them at home? Are your punishments constructive?

[Love51]

In my middle school (kids aged 9-13) everyone had to do litter picking. Each class did a week, probably once or twice a year. We stayed out in the yard for 10 minutes and put rubbish in bins. It wasn't punishment, it was just tidying up (slowly, we weren't too enthusiastic, still it was quite pleasant in the summer!)

A lot of schools now use various forms of seclusion, which take up time and resources. (you missed a ten minute detention, have a half hour one. You missed that too, have a day in isolation. Its 3 days later and this has escalated wildly). A quick bit of cleaning up the classroom environment as a consequence for disrupting it seems preferable on all counts. Loads of kids due in seclusion / isolation just take the day off, this doesn't drag on all day, but is firm.

[AwaywiththePixies27]

You can just imagine it cant you at the school staff meeting.

Teachers: "what shall we do about all these children who keep getting detention but aren't learning anything?".

some teachers think up way to utilise their time spent in detention to equate detention with = bad - dont want to go there again instead of just fucking about for half hour

Teachers: "yeah you know some parents wont like that. Human rights & all that".

Lo and behold look what happens.

Until you've verified with the school OP that this actually happened I wouldn't be blindly believing my DC at the moment.

[Love51]

OP, it comes across like you think chatting in class isn't disruptive. It is. Why should teacher have to stop educating 29 other kids to remind one kid to shut up. 2 incidents per child per lesson is 60 incidents. Hence the need to actually give a consequence not a gentle reminder. By secondary school kids know how to behave (barring those with disorders affecting impulse control, which school should be aware of, and will need consideration regardless of what consequence system the school use)

[AwaywiththePixies27]

Loads of kids due in seclusion / isolation just take the day off, this doesn't drag on all day, but is firm.

Yep but it can do in some places. My nephews school does this. Hes that unphased by it now he sees it as his regular classroom. A kid who hurt a friends kid that bad he needed an operation. The perpetrator got a weeks suspension. So this kid got a week off for assaulting a child that badly he needed an op. I'm sure the kid learnt his lesson after that. The police should have been called. Then again they do very little too. Its probably why the evil witch of an adult did what she did to my DD a few weeks ago (hurt her accidentally on purpose). She knew she'd get off scotfree with a slapped wrist. That's if the police ever bother to visit her anyway.

[GreatFuckability]

a) my children clean windows. they make the windows dirty, they clean them.
b) i also let them climb ladders, they help paint walls and clean out gutters and i'm scared of heights so someone has to.
c) my kids school, a lowly state comp as it might be, absolutely has windows they can reach!

[LellyMcKelly]

OP, they don't need to talk while they're cleaning windows, because they've already done it in class.

And if I'd paid £9k a term for my kids' education I'd expect them to value that and not waste their time and my money by yakking in class.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Well if they go back wanting to talk more they get to use up more energy washing more windows

[Bumdishcloths]

I just don't see how it's constructive to make a teenager wash windows for talking

Teenagers should know better anyway and to be honest, washing windows is better than them sitting on their arses in detention, surely

[Beachcomber]

Sounds fine to me. I know lots of teachers who say one of the biggest challenges they face is getting the children to shut up so that they can teach them.

It's not right. Something weird has happened to the way parents are with their kids nowadays - children are given too much of a platform at home and of course they replicate that behaviour in school. But 1 or 2 children who like the sound of their own voice at home is an issue only for the family. 15 like that in a class of 30 is a nightmare to teach and unbearably annoying.

I'm amazed (and not in a good way) by how oblivious many kids are to their surroundings and how they should behave in them. They are overly self-assured whilst lacking in selfawareness. And then when they get sanctioned for being out of line, the parents complain about it instead of realising that their kid is being annoying and disrupting the education of others.

I'm glad I don't teach anymore. Washing windows, picking up litter, etc sounds good to me - these children need to be told to give back to the community they take so much from with their disruptive and self-entitled chatter.

[Beachcomber]

I just don't see how it's constructive to make a teenager wash windows for talking.

Here it is, right there. This weird mind set that everything must be constructive / positive for one's child all the time in a way that centres them.

How about it being constructive for the rest of the class? Or constructive for the teacher? Or a lesson to these teenagers to shut up and have some respect (which I happen to think is perfectly "constructive").

We seem to have gone from "children should be seen and not heard" to "my child should be seen and heard and heard some more and told they are wonderful and only ever experience "constructive" things which centre them and their wants".

[thethoughtfox]

People take more care of their surroundings if they have a stake in keeping it clean. Great idea. However, taking children's breaks away which they desperately need, is another issue.

[gabsdot]

The only problem I have with this is that cleaning is used as a punishment and therefore will be seen as a negative thing.

I think everyone should help clean because you are part of the class and contributed to the dirt. Same at home.

[crumpet]

I think it is entirely constructive. It (mildly) helped the school with its cleaning requirements, and reminded dd that she'd have a choice as to whether to repeat the behaviour and thus repeat the consequence that came with it, or to choose to not be a silly ass next time the opportunity presented itself.

[crumpet]

TBH I can't remember whether it was behaviour related, or something like missing homework, but it makes no difference.

[MrsMarigold]

I'm all for it.

[alexa1789]

Don't see the problem - we were made to do "community service" (usually cleaning the lunch tables/picking up rubbish) if we misbehaved - no-one enjoyed it but that was the point.