Not understanding what teacher wants!

[Mumofone1970]

I have a summer born son in year 1.
Sadly he has taken to being a little disruptive over the past month, on and off.
Teacher calls me at the end of the day to inform me if I need to know as we had an agreement there is no TV time if he's behaved badly.
I was never in favour of this as don't feel punishing after the event is effective in such a young child and often he would forget completely the next day anyway and do the same thing.
He is being spurred on she said by one challenging boy who he has suddenly become close to and they are doing all they can to separate them but in the playground it's not possible so they are play fighting, accidentally hurting each other and so on and then bringing the silly behaviour back into class after.
I've now offered to come in and collect him after lunch and he can sit with me in the car until class begins again.
She seemed to think this was far too harsh, that never would the head agree to it as whilst he is at school he is in their care and they have steps they can take, but when I asked what the next step is, she couldn't tell me and said she would think about it over the weekend.
We have now told our son not to play with this child anymore as he is getting into too much trouble with him which has upset him as he does like him, although knows his behaviour is not acceptable ( and hasn't been since the start of reception but my son wasn't friends with him then ) so has accepted it although feels bad.
I'm just not sure what she wants! She's letting me know but giving no guidance on what she would like to happen.

I think you need to take responsibility for dispiclining your own kid
He should be made to walk around with the The dinner lady if he doesn't behave and you should cut screen time / chocolate / whatever works , every day the teacher says his behaviour is. Not good

Very bad idea for him to sit in your car as that is rewarding his bad behaviour with your attention

You really shouldn't have to go in to sit with him. Seriously.

Surely to goodness the school can manage silly behaviour from a 6 year old. If they go out and play with each other when they've been told not to they are called inside to sit alone for the rest of lunchtime or something. How hard can it be?

I love how people are just saying "separate the boys" as if it's so easy...
It's bloody hard to keep kids separate if you have 28 other kids in a class where some of the children are almost certainly physically disabled, have special needs or are being abused at home and are lashing out.

For playtime problems you should absolutely talk to the head, not the teacher. Heads can decide to provide activities, buddy schemes etc etc. Unless the head order it, there is no spare member of staff to walk around doing a job with your child at lunch time. The teacher can keep your child in the room with her while she works, but she can't go outside with him because she does have to work, if she doesn't work through lunch there will be nothing set up for the children to learn when they come back in.

I agree that TV sanction without school sanctions is a stupid consequence, but you should do some sort of follow up conversation at home at the very least and brainstorm what went wrong and how he can avoid that happening again.

If it were me I would probably make sure myself and my ta teach Ur son and the other boy to play structured games when we are on duty 15 mins 2xpw. I would also get your son and the other child to come in and play Lego with a child who I felt would be a "good influence" while I worked 1x pw, giving them a list of friendship rules which we would make together.
I would establish some sort of reward chart for playtimes and advise lunchtime staff to be on the lookout.

Here's the thing though... Your son is seeking this boy out and is enjoying playfighting. He is not blameless. Neither is the teacher the only person responsible for teaching him social skills. It's your job to model and reward social skills at home help him to be less impulsive with this boy. You seem to want the other child and teacher to be entirely responsible for this behaviour.

If I were you I would let the teacher know that you're speaking to the head, but make it clear that it's because you know that she can't fully control what happens outside so you need to talk to someone who's in control of the outdoor staff. I would ask if there is anything she would like you to say so that she knows you're on her side.
I would invite other children round and try to start friendships with them, and I would try to get him involved in sports and activities where he can get his energy out.
If it is at all possible for you to pick up or drop off so that you can have face to face conversations with the teacher in front of your son, this is more effective than a phone call.
Neither you nor the teacher can control what happens when you aren't there, so you will both have to put 100 percent into helping your child to build up his impulse control and hope for the best until he moves on to a new friend.

Oh and in terms of misbehaviour in the classroom, tbh I would deal with it by being a scary old hag. Not very mumsnet though...

Ah but user you can't discipline them by using a firm tone of voice. Someone might start an AIBU thread.
I can see it now "AIBU to think the teacher was wrong to scream at my child when my child was only playing with another child at break?"

Watching with interest. I'm having a similar issue with my 8 year old. Teacher mum here too.

Although he is a bit older, we have a similar situation and I'm tearing my hair out.

I sanction at home if I get a bad report. Mine goes to bed early. I did have a reward chart going as well which worked for a while but it's effectiveness has worn off.

I reckon with the 8 year old you plan in lots of tiny treats, and then remove them if there's any problem.

I know he's not blameless.
I'm not asking the school to deal with it all, I'm just explaining that unfortunately punishment after the event doesn't seem to be effective as he lives very much in the moment so come the next day is repeating the same behaviour even though at the time the lack of TV was the end of the world.
I thought I was being very reasonable being willing to take time off of work and go and collect him every lunchtime until this is sorted out.
I don't think he would view it as a treat as enjoys playtime much more than any other part of school.

why the hell is the teacher letting them sit together on the carpet to the point of messing around? either she deals with it there and then or if the children are not responsive then extra help needs to be brought in for them. (ie senco or smt to observe)

It could be a classroom management problem or a behaviour problem, difficult to tell.

I prefer that children have consequences in school for school behaviour unless it is very serious. nothing wrong with discussing with parents. quite often that sorts the problem as the child is shocked that parents get told and find out.

actually I think sitting with you in the car there and then might be very effective. I know of someone for whom this strategy worked after one implementation.

Blackeyedsusan,
I honestly think it would be effective very quickly but she kept referring to it as a " last resort ", " far too extreme " and that the headteacher would " never agree to it "

I think that all the strategies mentioned are great, but what ultimately needs to happen is that your son has to have the maturity to say no to behaviour that gets him into trouble. It has to be worth more to him to have a day where the adults are pleased with him, rather than making choices which the adults don't like, and for whatever reason, at the moment it isn't. This is where the teacher is falling down. She isn't being consistent enough about nipping in the bud, or she isn't making the immediate deterrent strong enough, or she isn't modelling out loud how to say no and make good choices in a way which the children cotton on to, or she isn't praising him enough when he makes a good choice, so it isn't important enough to your son to gain her respect.

Where I think you are falling down is by taking too much of this onto your shoulders. At some point his behaviour has to become his choice and his problem. If you sit him with you in the car, he never gets the opportunity to practice saying no to silly behaviour and getting praised for it. I know he is only 6 but he needs the practice at delaying gratification and refusing to join in with something because he values the respect of a trusted adult.

I'm just not sure what she wants! She's letting me know but giving no guidance on what she would like to happen
She said she'll have a think over the weekend. She might need to discuss next steps with other staff members.

Poor behaviour in school needs to be dealt with by sanctions in school. That is the weirdest thing I've ever heard that you are expected to punish him at home for his behaviour in school.

I assumed this would be the case too but she seems very insistent ( last month ) that it needed to be followed through at home, so she would tell me upon collecting him if it had been a bad day and then no TV.
We only had to do that once and that was on a day she forgot to tell me he hadn't behaved but when we got home he said he was sent to another classroom and she had told him to tell me no TV.
I wasn't overly impressed at him having to relay the message but luckily he's a honest child.
I think I will ask for a meeting with the head so we are at least all on the same page.
I'm not happy that she called me last night at 5.30 as again she forgot to tell me upon collecting him.
It would have been massively unfair to then punish him after he had been out of school for 2 1/2 hours and no bad behaviour or anything.

I also agree he needs to learn to say no. This is something we are constantly working on with him as he does get very swept away with any silliness going on. It's hard not to take it on my shoulders when a teacher is telling me all this but has no plan or idea what she wants to do about it in sight!

Can the teacher really not keep 2 small boys apart in the classroom? Suggest they sit at different tables, opposite ends of the carpet, one at the front, another at the back of the queue? Meet the teacher, TA and head and see if it is really so impossible to solve. It is such a common problem, they're bound to have a pair or two like this in most classes.

They can keep them apart on the table but on carpet time either one of them just get up and walk over to the other and sit down.
Apparently ahes having to ask my son lots of times before he listens and the other child won't listen at all so they end up going to another classroom.
She does seem to think it's a massive problem when I agree that it must be pretty common!

I suppose in itself it maybe isn't.

But if the 2 of them are causing issues together and then ignoring staff when they're keeping them apart then it's the start of children deciding they can pick and choose when to follow perfectly reasonable level instructions - in which case it is an issue.

Best thing I read on here lately was something like 'it's cute when they're little but it's not cute when they're 15'.

OP, you asked me what I think, as a teacher.

I think that misbehaviour at school should be dealt with during school time time by the school, especially with a young child, such as your ds. Yes, you need to support the school, and not undermine or downplay what they are telling you, but if he kicks off during the morning, they need to deal with it, effectively and swiftly, a delayed 'punishment' at home, for something he did under their control is wrong. He will struggle, at that young age to understand why he's being punished for something he did earlier. I would stop all this teacher calling you and telling you to stop his tv time business right now. She's passing the buck rather than taking control and sorting behaviour herself.

Is the teacher inexperienced? It does sound as if things are allowed to escalate, whereas if they were nipped in the bud, there wouldn't be such an issue. The mat thing at story time is just poor class management and a bit daft: "Johnny, you're sitting here please, next to me and if you get up and move then I'll ask you to sit on a chair over there.'

I would suggest teacher gives your ds a notebook which she writes positive and negatives in, for him to give to you every day after school. You sign it, comment if need be and return. This will show him that you and school are a team. It will give you a record. Then make a 'reward' chart and let him have a sticker for every positive comment. After x amount of stickers he could have a treat.

You could ask to see the head and request a behaviour management plan. Ask for clear indications regarding their procedures for dealing with this type of behaviour.
Or, if my hunch is right, wait until year 2, which isn't long and see if things are much improved due to a different more experienced teacher.

It might be a good idea if the children had carpet places. Set places from September (based on previous teacher's information). Can be adjusted later on as new problems surface.
Saves messing around at the start of every session.

The teacher sounds incompetent. All the teachers I have ever met can control two naughty children.

Only a suggestion that perhaps the teachers could comment on, would it work/be appropriate of your DS came in from playtime 10 minutes early to have a "calm down time" somewhere? In fact your DS and the other boy could take it in turns if the main issue is the pair of them playing together hyping each other up.

Much of that would depend if there was anywhere for him to go that would be supervised.

It seems there needs to be a lot more focus on your DS making good choices and the teacher helping with what that means in the moment in time.

Could you take him home and feed him his lunch there and bring him back at the end of the dinner hour?

Not as a punishment but as a way of avoiding the situation escalating. This doesn't seem that extreme to me and might be more effective than a punishment which is nothing to do with the problem behaviour

Thanks for replying.
Me offering to go in is to stop the situation escalating as well as reinforcing to my son that if he's unable to keep away I'll have to keep going in