Not understanding what teacher wants!

[Mumofone1970]

I have a summer born son in year 1.
Sadly he has taken to being a little disruptive over the past month, on and off.
Teacher calls me at the end of the day to inform me if I need to know as we had an agreement there is no TV time if he's behaved badly.
I was never in favour of this as don't feel punishing after the event is effective in such a young child and often he would forget completely the next day anyway and do the same thing.
He is being spurred on she said by one challenging boy who he has suddenly become close to and they are doing all they can to separate them but in the playground it's not possible so they are play fighting, accidentally hurting each other and so on and then bringing the silly behaviour back into class after.
I've now offered to come in and collect him after lunch and he can sit with me in the car until class begins again.
She seemed to think this was far too harsh, that never would the head agree to it as whilst he is at school he is in their care and they have steps they can take, but when I asked what the next step is, she couldn't tell me and said she would think about it over the weekend.
We have now told our son not to play with this child anymore as he is getting into too much trouble with him which has upset him as he does like him, although knows his behaviour is not acceptable ( and hasn't been since the start of reception but my son wasn't friends with him then ) so has accepted it although feels bad.
I'm just not sure what she wants! She's letting me know but giving no guidance on what she would like to happen.

[MaisyPops]

A teacher so utterly helpless when faced with 2 six year olds play fighting ist going to fall apart in a year 6 class
Not necessarily. I work with y5 and y6 students as part of our primary outreach but I would probably find the nuances of managing y2 difficult.
It might be that the teacher is better suited to KS2 than KS1.

[Mumofone1970]

This is how I imagine it in my head but she said the children take many times of being told to stop before they listen, sometimes saying " no " to her which is obviously an issue as its rude.
One then gets sent out of class to another classroom, misses part of lunchtime or " free time " at the end of the day but it still doesn't deter for the next day.

[paxillin]

We had this situation in year 2 I think. Teacher told me after school he had to move DS because he and Josh were constantly arguing in class so he moved both to different tables and they lost golden time as a punishment. Sorted. I also witnessed the teacher saying to another child "please don't sit at the back of the carpet, I prefer you here with me at the front". This boy was one of those liable to run off or fight. Again, sorted. Your DS's teacher sounds like she might benefit from some advice on how to handle small children.

[Mumofone1970]

This is how I feel
It can't be a unique situation and I'm pretty sure it isn't as lots of chatty kids and a very boy heavy class so I would be massively surprised if it's only these two.

[Cary2012]

Agree that if two little lads can't be managed by the school, then there is something very wrong with the school.

Don't worry about going above the teacher to the head, this might benefit her by flagging up training for her.

I'm baffled to be honest that it has come to this, two little lads wind each other up, hardly unique is it?

[Mumofone1970]

Well quite

[paxillin]

I'd generally want to know how the school deals with disruptive behaviour. A teacher so utterly helpless when faced with 2 six year olds play fighting ist going to fall apart in a year 6 class!

[Mumofone1970]

Well this is what I need to establish and will do this via a meeting with the head.
I don't want it to be seen as I'm going above the teacher but I don't think the way it's being dealt with currently will work.
She seemed to think a chat with me at home and a sanction would be sufficient to stop the behaviour the following day but it's not working.

[sirfredfredgeorge]

How can a teacher even know if "no TV is a punishment" ? indeed for some kids it could even be a reward if it generates more parental attention.

What does the school behaviour policy actually say - does it really say the first escalation points is parents enforce punishment decided by school? If not, what is happening through the first few escalation points - I'm surprised the schools policy doesn't have any sort of system where the children are seperated, all the ones I've seen have, and that includes at break times.

[Mumofone1970]

Ok I'll see what they say following the weekend

[Nanny0gg]

What OlennasWimple said. They don't need one-to-one supervision, they need guiding and the situation needs managing.

[OlennasWimple]

You tell them that it's their responsibility to come up with a practical and effective strategy to manage the situation that doesn't involve you coming to school during the day other than in exceptional circumstances. He's five FFS, school should really be able to sort this out themselves. It can't possibly be the first time they have had two children who wind each other up

[Quadrangle]

See what they say after the weekend

[Mumofone1970]

I know it will escalate but what do I do if they're saying there's nothing they can do?
That they can't make him miss the entire lunch break as there's nobody to supervise him and so on

[Nanny0gg]

If he's naughty in school he is disciplined in school. You back them up but he hasn't been naughty for you so it's not your job to punish.

And I hate this abdicating of responsibility at playtimes and lunchtimes. Of course he can be separated from this other child if they choose to do it and they put friendship groups in place for both children. Especially as they're so young.

You can't sit him in the car for the next 6 years, and believe me if they don't deal with it now it will absolutely get worse.

[Mumofone1970]

Thanks for replying.
Me offering to go in is to stop the situation escalating as well as reinforcing to my son that if he's unable to keep away I'll have to keep going in

[carefreeeee]

Could you take him home and feed him his lunch there and bring him back at the end of the dinner hour?

Not as a punishment but as a way of avoiding the situation escalating. This doesn't seem that extreme to me and might be more effective than a punishment which is nothing to do with the problem behaviour

[RandomMess]

Only a suggestion that perhaps the teachers could comment on, would it work/be appropriate of your DS came in from playtime 10 minutes early to have a "calm down time" somewhere? In fact your DS and the other boy could take it in turns if the main issue is the pair of them playing together hyping each other up.

Much of that would depend if there was anywhere for him to go that would be supervised.

It seems there needs to be a lot more focus on your DS making good choices and the teacher helping with what that means in the moment in time.

[paxillin]

The teacher sounds incompetent. All the teachers I have ever met can control two naughty children.

[notthe1Parrot]

It might be a good idea if the children had carpet places. Set places from September (based on previous teacher's information). Can be adjusted later on as new problems surface.
Saves messing around at the start of every session.

[Cary2012]

OP, you asked me what I think, as a teacher.

I think that misbehaviour at school should be dealt with during school time time by the school, especially with a young child, such as your ds. Yes, you need to support the school, and not undermine or downplay what they are telling you, but if he kicks off during the morning, they need to deal with it, effectively and swiftly, a delayed 'punishment' at home, for something he did under their control is wrong. He will struggle, at that young age to understand why he's being punished for something he did earlier. I would stop all this teacher calling you and telling you to stop his tv time business right now. She's passing the buck rather than taking control and sorting behaviour herself.

Is the teacher inexperienced? It does sound as if things are allowed to escalate, whereas if they were nipped in the bud, there wouldn't be such an issue. The mat thing at story time is just poor class management and a bit daft: "Johnny, you're sitting here please, next to me and if you get up and move then I'll ask you to sit on a chair over there.'

I would suggest teacher gives your ds a notebook which she writes positive and negatives in, for him to give to you every day after school. You sign it, comment if need be and return. This will show him that you and school are a team. It will give you a record. Then make a 'reward' chart and let him have a sticker for every positive comment. After x amount of stickers he could have a treat.

You could ask to see the head and request a behaviour management plan. Ask for clear indications regarding their procedures for dealing with this type of behaviour.
Or, if my hunch is right, wait until year 2, which isn't long and see if things are much improved due to a different more experienced teacher.

[MaisyPops]

I suppose in itself it maybe isn't.

But if the 2 of them are causing issues together and then ignoring staff when they're keeping them apart then it's the start of children deciding they can pick and choose when to follow perfectly reasonable level instructions - in which case it is an issue.

Best thing I read on here lately was something like 'it's cute when they're little but it's not cute when they're 15'.

[Mumofone1970]

They can keep them apart on the table but on carpet time either one of them just get up and walk over to the other and sit down.
Apparently ahes having to ask my son lots of times before he listens and the other child won't listen at all so they end up going to another classroom.
She does seem to think it's a massive problem when I agree that it must be pretty common!

[paxillin]

Can the teacher really not keep 2 small boys apart in the classroom? Suggest they sit at different tables, opposite ends of the carpet, one at the front, another at the back of the queue? Meet the teacher, TA and head and see if it is really so impossible to solve. It is such a common problem, they're bound to have a pair or two like this in most classes.

[Mumofone1970]

I also agree he needs to learn to say no. This is something we are constantly working on with him as he does get very swept away with any silliness going on. It's hard not to take it on my shoulders when a teacher is telling me all this but has no plan or idea what she wants to do about it in sight!