To buy my DS a dress?

[Isthereanyusernamesleft]

I've one DS, he is my first & last (traumatic birth).

He's only 10 weeks so is still quite neutral I.E you can't necessarily tell he's a boy yet!

I think dresses are lovely & as I don't follow this gender society crap of girls wear dresses & pink & boys wear blue & trousers.....I don't see the issue in putting my DS in a dress.

However, everyone else thinks it's wrong!

Is it??

[Ossieostrich1]

drspouse,

I didn't say they would. So what is your problem? Do you disagree that there are little girls that need good homes, or do you think that dressing them in dresses is wrong?

[drspouse]

Ossie you've said the OP should adopt a girl to dress up.
I can't even begin to tell you how many kinds of wrong that is.
It would be way way more wrong than having a baby to put them in cute baby clothes.

[user1496273889]

I know two males whose mothers put them in dresses and both have issues with gender identity and mental health issues, plus their peer group alienated them. 10 weeks old now will soon be five and ten years old, do you want your son to suffer for your selfishness?

[LauraMipsum]

Well just to counterbalance that user I know two boys whose mothers put them in dresses AND let them wear nail varnish! AND let them read Enid Blyton! AND suggested that the feminine wasn't inherently inferior! can you EVEN IMAGINE THE HORROR

anyway both of them are really lovely young men with no mental health or gender identity issues, although one does have a penchant for guyliner, which he reckons is a girl-magnet.

[LauraMipsum]

Only very few parents (fortunately) decide to use their children as an on-going social experiment.

While I was pregnant I read a Daily Mail article saying that lesbians having children were a "dangerous social experiment"

or "my reality" as I prefer to call it

Do you write for the Mail?

[Ossieostrich1]

Erm.... I said she COULD not should. Learn to read. The OP said that she had had a traumatic birth and didn't want another child through childbirth; ruling out having a daughter. I was simply pointing out that by adopting a girl she could happily indulge in dress shopping for a child throughout her life without it being weird.

You still haven't answered my question. What is "way way wrong" about dressing girls in dresses, I thought you were all for people dressing their kids however they want? No, wait I'm not interested in the bleating from a moral compass that doesn't know which way is North. I'm sure that the heavily overworked social workers are going to be distraught over the thought of a prospective parent planning to dress girls up in girls' clothing; and would much rather leave them in the care of people who don't bother to clothe them at all.

Frankly, you come across as quite dim if you think that somebody would advocate adopting a child purely with the intent of projecting their dress sense upon that child; but then why let the truth get in the way of a misplaced sense of justified outrage?

[notomatoes]

Although you did say:

You could adopt a little girl in future if you don't want to give birth again and you want somebody to dress up

[drspouse]

I said she COULD not should.
No she couldn't. Social workers don't hand out baby girls to people who want to have a girl to put her in a dress and they don't usually approve people to adopt who just don't want to give birth again. The correct route for birth trauma would, as far as I'm aware, be counselling.

It's way way wrong to think that you adopt a child to satisfy your own desires - either to have a girl to dress up, a boy to play football with, or to avoid giving birth.

So don't accuse me of not reading, thanks.

There is nothing wrong with choosing your own baby's clothes when they are too young to have a preference - whether that's a dress, or a blue t-shirt with tractors on.

[wrenika]

Nope. If he ever expresses a desire to wear a dress himself, then by all means, buy him a dress - I agree that there's no harm in a guy wearing a dress (in fact...they often wear it better than a woman could!) - but not a baby.

[Ossieostrich1]

drspouse,

Not enough people are making themselves available to adopt so I doubt the BAAF will put a big red cross against your name for being enthusiastic about spending time with an adopted child. In fact, they are not happy about having two working parents adopting. What is it about the OP that makes you think she wouldn't be suitable to adopt a child, given you know nothing about her or the adoption process?

Are there any good reasons to adopt a child in your book? Obviously not if "It's way way wrong to think that you adopt a child to satisfy your own desires". The desire to have a child being the main motivation for adopting one.

And yes, you still can't read as you evidently missed my last paragraph entirely.

Apparently it is better to play Russian Roulette with a boy's mental welfare by dressing him as a girl, than adopt a girl who needs a loving parental home because it is wrong to play dress up and pretend. Have a word with yourself.

[drspouse]

Ossie I am an adopter, of a DS and a DD so I know a fair bit about the adoption process, more than you it's fairly clear!

Adopting children is about the children. The reason for adopting a child is not to provide a child for your home but to provide a home for a child.

Clearly you must be willing to be a parent (which is why we applied) and you must be able to meet the needs of the child placed with you (which is partly why we are stopping at two, as we don't think adding more children to the family would be helpful for our two or for a potential additional child; and it's also why we said we could cope with certain difficulties but not others).

And most of the children who are failing to find homes are older and traumatised, or have special needs, or both. Not little dolls to dress up.

Prospective adopters who say they'd like a girl to dress up or a boy to play football with are soon told to get realistic - the last thing the SWs want is someone who is disappointed because their boy isn't sporty or their girl isn't into clothes, and that child to feel further rejected because their adoptive parents were expecting something different.

I repeat, adopting a girl because you want to put her in a dress and adopting a child because you can't face going through another pregnancy are not good reasons for adopting.

BAAF doesn't exist any more, by the way.

I'm not surprised you think that putting a baby boy in a dress will cause them mental health problems given how little you know about adoption, I'll look forward to your words of wisdom on the pathogenesis of childhood mental illness.

I'm sure that's why my DS has behaviour problems - his one day spent in his christening gown. And nothing to do with his early life history. Nothing at all.

[Tw1nsetAndPearls]

Our little boy now 16 months dresses in what other people would call gender neutral clothes and so you don't have conform to what you call gender society crap but equally you don't have to put your boy in a dress which is probably not practical anyway - although before crawling or starting to crawl it doesn't make that much difference.

We dressed our boy in lots of rompers, some smocked tops, bright colours etc. Little Bird from mothercare has some lovely bits as does Maxomorra and Frugi.

Yesterday our boy was out in a rainbow playsuit - I did giggle when somebody asked if our little person would like a drink!

[Tw1nsetAndPearls]

Gosh maqueen that is a lot of anger you are carrying around about what other people's children wear. I

to wear tractors/to not drive tractors really isn't the question here. Neither we, or our children live in individual ivory (or blue, or pink) towers. We live in a society where gender issues are recognised along broadly similar lines for the vast majority of people - just like the 1001 other societal norms', which though often unspoken, nevertheless smooths your path through life

Thankfully the suffragettes disagreed with you maqueen.

One of the greatest gifts you can give your child are the tools to become successfully socially integrated - to ensure that other people respond positively to them.

One of the greatest gifts I hope to give my children is acceptance and not to be so judgemental and get worked up over things that don't matter.

[MaQueen]

You have obviously never read one of my really angry posts

As regards this, about the best I can manage is an irresolute meh with a vague shoulder shrug...

[Tw1nsetAndPearls]

No I haven't maqueen. Your tone certainly doesn't suggest a "meh" attitude.

I took a long break from MN and I think you are one of the many posters who joined during that time and so your posts are quite new to me- I didn't realise that wasn't angry for you - gosh!

[Morphene]

Some people try to give their children the best chance at free choice, by deliberately offsetting societal messages.

I tell my DD that women are powerful, because society doesn't. I tell her women can be scientists, when she tells me they couldn't. I tell here there are no 'boy' toys and no 'girl' toys when the multi-billion pound toy industry is telling her there are.

I haven't had to start telling her she is worth more than just her looks, because thankfully that aspect of societal conditioning isn't particularly in her world yet. But it will be.

This also very much includes telling her there are no 'boy' clothes and 'girl' clothes (which at her current age is true.

I think it is irresponsible parenting to NOT challenge gender BS coming from society.

I certainly don't think it responsible parenting to reinforce it as people are suggesting below.

So no, I won't be training my child to fit in with your gender expectations. Quite the opposite.

[Ossieostrich1]

Oh I am sorry! You have adopted twice, I guess that means you know everything about kids. Sorry again. Moral outrage justified. It explains why you jumped all over me when I mentioned the "A" word, because it is obviously not Ok to do that if you haven't adopted.

Let's just summarise. I suggest that the OP may be able to adopt a girl, and it would be cool to dress her in dresses, if she is not able to give birth again (for any reason, medical or mental). You take issue with this because you have already determined that I am advocating adopting a child purely on wanting a little playmate, which would be nonsensical, and that all prospective parents who are not willing to give birth for whatever reason should not be considered as potential adopters? Clearly you have assessed the OP's case in depth based upon your years of adopting children, and decided it would be the wrong thing to do. God forbid somebody else is allowed to cheapen your achievements by doing what you did for different reason(s), especially if you don't agree with those reasons.

The issue is not the child's perception of being dressed, it is the perception of those around them who react to being dressed. Nobody really perceives how they are dressed only how other people react to how they are dressed; which is the issue here. Now, we would all like to live in a world where everybody didn't react to how others look but the truth is that they do. In the case of the OP, it is more for her sake rather than her child's. I'm sure that most folks would agree that being a new mum is hard enough without worrying about things like this. She just has to weigh up whether people's reactions, positive or negative, matter more to her than her personal want of dresses (I can't believe I just typed that).

I have been in the embarrassing position of assuming somebody's boy was actually a girl due to the way they were dressed, and I can't really condone the offence that the parent took. Assuming people that look like girls may not be girls doesn't come naturally for most people and I doubt dating would be successful if you had to clarify your date's gender verbally!

Personally, I would love a daughter to dress up in dresses. Does that make me unfit to be a parent? Evidently not, judging by my record of raising a well-behaved, endearing child. I always thought that adopting a child was every bit the same as becoming a parent, obviously not. It seems box-ticking was the order of the day, from what you have said drspouse, like many of our other similarly-mismanaged public services, I'd like to speculate that that is probably a contributory factor to the demise of the BAAF, but I'm really not that interested.

[notomatoes]

Again, as you seem to have missed it. What you said was

You could adopt a little girl in future if you don't want to give birth again and you want somebody to dress up

[nina2b]

Get a doll.

[Tw1nsetAndPearls]

I think it is irresponsible parenting to NOT challenge gender BS coming from society.

I agree I am proud that I have raised a daughter who delights in challenging gender BS. Those little decisions that some on this thread have derided have played a part because I have tried as much as possible to show my daughter that being female doesn't have to mean that you make different choices aside from when you take a pee. She has chosen to wear pink but I tried to get a balance. She was both outraged and amused at the whole pink biro fiasco.She has worn dresses but not ones that have stopped her from running or climbing. The same with toys - she haddolls and a toy kitchen but also had "boy toys". We have also tried to model making decisions based on what is practical rather than what society says men or women should do. My husband took my surname, we walked down the aisle together rather than somebody giving me away and my husband and I shared parental leave. Lots of those things are quite small and I suspect would be mocked by some posters as virtue signalling but I think they are important.

We now have a baby boy and I also don't want him to be limited by society's assumptions about his gender. He is a beautiful boy and has always dressed beautifully - not in dresses - but it isn't always clear to strangers that he is a boy. Today he had on orange shorts, green braces and a mainly yellow t shirt. Yesterday he had on a rainbow striped play suit . He likes to play with trucks but also likes to push a doll in a pram I don't really see how this is virtue signalling or setting him up for getting his head kicked in at school.

[PrincessToadinTheHole]

Sounds to me like you're just doing it to make some sort of point, so I think YABU.

Why does making a point make someone unreasonable? Is blindly following convention somehow more reasonable?

Buy your kid a dress op. His penis won't fall off.

Ds wore the comfy jersey types as a toddler as he was anti clothes and I think enjoyed the breeze. He survived

[Tw1nsetAndPearls]

Buy your kid a dress op. His penis won't fall off

[MrsD79]

Have you lost your mind?

[Ossieostrich1]

notomatoes,

I have since clarified that comment.

[WhatWouldGenghisDo]

I might buy my baby a dress just to cut down on the hours I spend every day chasing him round the room trying to do his poppers up