AIBU to feel the UK is really a bit crap?

[clogdance]

We have a German exchange child staying with us. He has been learning English at school for 2 years, and is apparently not top of the class in it. He spent supper talking to me about the rights and wrongs of vegetarianism and veganism.
He also mentioned that he lives in an old house but that new houses in Germany are larger and more solidly built. Just like here then .
His family are very very pleased that they unlike us are staying in the EU. And that they, unlike us, are welcoming a very large number of Syrian refugees.
Being English feels pretty depressing.

[Graphista]

Re GE Have none of you heard about the election fraud issues? That's a big part of why it was called when it was I and many others believe. A large number of MPs may be getting prosecuted.

[clogdance]

User - obviously this is not just based on what a 12 year old said to me. Though I know how much French and German my children can speak after years of learning it (very very little).
Is this refusal to believe that some other European countries are getting some things more right than we are one of the reasons for Brexit?

[onceandneveragain]

Yes, some things are better in other countries. But some things are better here than there. No the UK isn't 'crap.' Yes it's always good to be aware of what other countries do better, in order to hopefully develop ourselves.

regarding languages specifically: while I agree with the point that we are terrible at learning, teaching and promoting, languages that aren't English in the UK (you only have to look at the recent 'Welsh wedding invite,' thread on here to see it's not even just 'foreign' languages), I can see the point of a pp that it's a bit late to bother with it now as tech will likely render it unnecessary soon enough.

However I feel it's fair to point out that although your exchange student may have only been formally learning English for two years, bear in mind that he will have been exposed to it throughout his life, far more than a British child would have had opportunities to casually hear German, or most other languages. Here is the top 40 for this week in Germany, for example - only about 7? are in German, one or two in French/Spanish and all the rest (so vast majority) are in English.

[onceandneveragain]

sorry, forgot to post link after that! top40-charts.com/chart.php?cid=12

[notaflyingmonkey]

I think that Germany has done a lot to be considerate of human suffering after the war. They seem to have have good language skills (like many other countries).

I think that we are going backwards into some unfunny parody of gunboat diplomacy. Pulling up all the draw bridges and eating turnips.

[DavidYucke]

There's a lot I like and love about the UK but now that I have a family I'm starting to realise how shit everything is with regards to education, housing etc. it has honestly taken me this much to realise that we would have a better quality of life elsewhere.

[SuperBeagle]

Is this refusal to believe that some other European countries are getting some things more right than we are one of the reasons for Brexit?

Your definition of "more right" is skewed though. They have better built new houses, so their country is "better"? They have to learn a second language fluently, so they're better even though the reason we don't is because we speak the most widely spoken language in the world as our native tongue? They take in more refugees (though many in Germany disagree with this and their election will go a long way to showing peoples' discontentment), so they're better, despite the massive increase in terror-related incidents?

Please.

There are many reasons for Brexit. I'm guessing a feeling of inferiority isn't high among them.

[Valentine2]

Antigone
I haven't got time to write in detail today. But if you google it a bit, and compare it to Uk, you'd will find it's manageable and easy for one parent to stay with children. What's more, it's not often have to be the mum anymore.
And FUCK they are going towards a six fucking hour day! That's about my whole productivity of the day no matter how hard I try I agree that is too far in the future yet but still.

[AntigoneJones]

[OneFlewOverTheDodosNest]

Nah the reason you're getting a bad response is because rather than saying "this is what we can learn from other countries" you're just going to "the U.K. is different therefore it's kinda shit."

It's like the difference between wanting to lose a few pounds yourself and having a bitchy coworker telling you to put down the cookie fatty.

Fwiw I think you're right on the language thing and it's how we teach them that doesn't work. I struggled through 5 years of French to get to relative fluency and then spent 8 months in France learning German and Spanish and I'd say my fluency was pretty comparable after that! We focus too much on teaching by rote, I presume because it's easier to mark an exact phrase translation and that fits exam board requirements.

[Jakeyboy1]

He sounds like a lovely educated child. Or a complete geek ;)

FIL's dual nationality German/English girlfriend spends 3 days coming back here on the bus to get her free prescriptions in the UK so not sure the healthcare is all that over there! (Btw I completely disagree with this and she is milking both countries)

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

I came to the thread to say that YABU but reading it has made me think about an article on the Financial Times (today's or yesterday's) explaining that the UK doesn't have low-level taxation like America, or excellent public services (with higher taxes) like Germany. Apparently in the past it has been argued that the UK was managing low taxes and good public services - the article argued that it is the opposite and the UK has the worst of both worlds.

Personally I think that each country has good and bad points. Language exchange students can be a particularly obnoxious breed of teenager - I'm sure I was

However the people who think that other countries in Europe must have worse healthcare or less gender equality really need to travel more. Healthcare in the continent is often excellent and free in some countries - and gender stereotyping, sexualisation of young girls and misogynistic violence are bad in the UK and often surprise visitors from Europe.

Also other countries have a countryside, too...

[Jux]

We really should be starting to teach mfl in Nursery, but Y1 would do. We are crap at so much, and governmental tinkering is just making children stressed out, and teachers miserable.

Could you ask him if dd and I can go and live with him in Germany please? She's 17 and very helpful.

[DrDreReturns]

There are problems in the UK and I am deeply pissed off about Brexit but I still think it is a very good place to live, and will be in a decades time.
I do wish foreign languages were taken more seriously though! As a few other people have said, English is so ubiquitous there is no incentive to learn a foreign language. My former boss (in a scientific field) was Swiss and he said you had to be able to speak English in order to work in that area.

[clogdance]

We know a German family who lived in the UK for several years before deciding to move back to Germany. They are so much better off there, financially, despite not earning more. They had a hard time with the aggressive housing market here too, including experiencing how easy it is to get thrown out of rented accommodation here.

[Orlantina]

I think the UK could be better. It's pretty good but there are still massive issues. We do have a large economy but it seems centered around the South East -and there are massive discrepancies.

Schools are just test orientated. Western European kids seem much more chilled than the UK.

I love the UK but I think we could be better.

[AntigoneJones]

Yes its easy to get thrown out of rented accom.in the UK, on the other hand, it is really hard in Germany to get a landlord to take you..

[user1493453415]

I don't think Germany has a better health system, that's not what my German friends who can't afford the premiums tell me anyway.

There's also many, many Germans who are seriously unhappy with the EU and the open border policy at the moment.

[PhyllisNights]

While I don't like how the majority of us are only able to speak English, whilst so many people in countries across Europe are bilingual, I am happy and appreciative that I was born into the UK. I think we'd be in for one hell of a culture shock if we had to move to any number of other countries across the world. It isn't perfect in the UK, but for the most part, we live in a progressive society and in a country where there's a lot of convenience.

[pipilangstrumpf]

I have lived in Germany and the UK.

Yes, language teaching is better in Germany, things are built much better and more efficiently and, most importantly, the society is more equal/fairer. In the U.K. You need more money to live an average quality of life.

What's better in the UK? Probably the sense of humour and pragmatism.

[AntigoneJones]

I must say whenever we have met German kids abroad or in the UK, they have always been really polite, and 'well brought up'.

[clogdance]

Not really needing to learn a foreign language doesn't excuse all those hours spent in the classroom with such a bad outcome.
I'm neither a politician nor an economist nor a town planner - not sure what practical suggestions to make for solving the UK's housing crisis, including all the poor quality housing, people not being able to buy or rent, etc etc.
I would love to see more emphasis on reducing the gap between rich and poor. I think we are going in the opposite direction.
Very few continental Europeans go to private school. May be something in that.

[pipilangstrumpf]

It's true, the renters are very much supported and protected in Germany, whereas in the U.K. Landlords have far more powers.

[flapjackfairy]

Ah yes but one area where we definitely have the edge is in being polite . .
Most of our kids on an exchange visit wouldnt insult a family they were staying with by trying to get one over on them insulting and putting their country down .
And we are so British and polite that we take it and then come on a forum to tell everybody how much we agree and how crap our own country is !
No one else in the world can hold a candle to us in the apologising for existing stakes.

[Huldra]

It's not just the teaching, two other factors could be:

Real Life Exposure
Pop songs, expressions, over dubbed TV. I've seen things like Deadly 100 on Spainish TV that you could still hear the English in the background, but Spainish was spoken on top.

I was awful at French at school, really terrible and hated it. I was terrible at spelling english too so abstract learning French wasn't going to work. As an adult I lived and worked in several countries and was amazed at what I learnt, after one year I could understand a newspaper in a completely different language and alphabet. The reason was that it was all around me and I was seeing and hearing it all the time, I started to think in that language. We don't hear French or German songs on the radio often, there's not he odd French phrase stuck in an English song.

Desire
By desire I'm not just talking about because they want, but there is a benefit to be gained from learning.

Desire to learn because it's nice to know another language. If you have no need to learn and no real life exposure you have to be pretty dedicated. It's probably a minority of any population who want to do that enough to succeed.

Desire to pass an exam because they have to do it at gcse. People may learn enough with little real life exposure, then you hardly use it again. I'm glad my son has to do Spanish because French isn't that useful. I say that as someone who has family in France and has enough basics to read signs, read the cooking instructions on a packet, read a menu and order.

Desire to get a job. You may be sat in Spain, Italy, or Germany but English is the official language of the company you're working at.

I'm not saying that we're not crap in the UK but sometimes I get the impression that people here think that there's some sort of language learning Utopia in the rest of Europe. Where some of my relatives live you could try and talk your language 1 km up the road and across the border then you aint going to get any understood. The same going to Germany from France, 10 km in and you accidently speak French, then blank looks are often what you'll get.

I've noticed a huge difference in French young people over the last decade or so in shops and restaurants. They often speak good conversational English and keen to try it out.