To think this is not "normal" behaviour for a 5yo

[Moomoomango]

I literally hate my life we are constantly living in fear of my 5yo having a melt down. He is a lovely, kind, empathetic boy and then as soon as his behaviour is challenged he flips into a self distructive spiral.

This behaviour is frequent ( most days) today's example scenario:

In the garden he poured his glass of juice on his 2 year old brothers head. I told him in a stern voice that's not nice and I'm very disappointed with that behaviour. I said brother would have to have a hair wash tonight and so for fairness sake he would have to have one too. Queue various toy cars thrown at my head, hit, threatening to smash my head up and lots of I hate you's. I took his hand and lead him to his bedroom for thinking time, shut the door and he's piss protesting all over the floor. I'm at my wits end. He's screaming, hitting, going crazy.

I know I'm probably too soft as a parent and I know it's likely my fault. But is this a sign of something more sinister?

:( really hating parenthood in these moments, and feel so low.

[Italiangreyhound]

100% agree with Littlepong "...it could be that he is expending all him energy conforming at school and it all comes out at home. I wouldn't rule out some kind of social/communication difficulty just because he is "good" at school."

This is what my dd was doing.

"And validate his feelings "you are really angry right now". Without judgement, without trying to fix his feelings, just echo it back to him"

This is such good advice. It is our human nature to try and make things right but we cannot always do it. So we must make sure he knows you are listening to him and understanding or trying to understand his feelings.

You can help him to have language to explain what 'frustration' is etc. Maybe help to explain these terms when he is not frustrated. EG you could try and do something and fail and explain how you feel when you cannot get this or that to work 'It's frustrating' etc and how you try and deal with those feelings, calmly.

"...he can thump a pillow"

Hitting a pillow is not advised in the book about temper it says to run around or jump on a trampoline etc. Thumping or hitting anything, or associating that with anger, might be considered unhelpful now I believe by some.

Although some people do still recommend it. It is included in this page, which is generally really helpful.

When Your Child Gets Angry: Here's Your Gameplan

[Charlie97]

I agree it's not normal behaviour. Is that what you want to hear?

^^ most unhelpful post ever!?!?!

Anyhow, you sound exhausted. I'd get a referral as well. He may well me just keeping it together at school.

Don't blame yourself, people will judge but I'm sure your doing fine parenting.

[Italiangreyhound]

books "I think if he can hold it together at school, then I'd say there isn't an immediate problem with his behaviour (such as, autism etc)"

This is what I thought, but it is not true. Autism is a spectrum and varies a lot.

[CrazedZombie]

I would do timeout in the bathroom or toilet. Is he cleaning up the wee? I would make sure that he was scrubbing the carpet in the hope that it acted as a deterrent for weeping on the floor.

[Allthewaves]

csgreeley.org/sites/default/files/files/1-2-3-magic.pdf

I use 1,2,3 magic with my ds (one has adhd and other asd). Consistent rules and boundaries.

[CosmoKlit]

Do you think that because he is holding it all together all the rest of the time he just feels totally unable to keep it all in when he is with you?

I'd maybe try giving him a quiet den space / thinking spot, with a tube of glitter in water (see through plastic jar or similar). Teach him that when he feels it gets too much to go sit there, shake the jar (to represent strong emotions) and then calm down whilst all the glitter settles to the bottom.

Be firm with discipline, make sure he knows the rules, and make sure he's cleaning up the pee (even if you have to do it properly afterwards). Make punishments fit the crime - no good punishing him hours after the incident. If you are going to use punishments, do it then and there.

[MrsTwix]

Of course I can't possibly say with any certainty from just what's written, but deliberately peeing on the floor and then smirking about it doesn't sound like autism or a meltdown to me, it sounds like a child pushing the boundaries and trying to make you angry. Probably he wants attention.

Can you wait until he is calm and ask him why he poured juice on his brother, and why he peed on the floor? Ask him if he was a Daddy what does he think would be a fair punishment?

Good luck

[Allthewaves]

I use the bedroom too as i had a wee protestor. I don't talk so much when they have done something naughty, I would have told him its wrong to have poured juice over his brothers head and put him straight in his room for 5 mins.

Usually after 5 mins there would be wee and smirking. I would keep a completely blank face, spray carpet cleaner on floor and make him clean it up. Then it would be sorry and a hug and a fresh start.

Did anything happen before the juice pour

[kateryan]

Well this sounds like a child using a bit of reverse psychology to get attention. "when I'm naughty you pay me attention". However, some of his methods are unusual for his age. Threatening behaviour is not good, where has he learned that from?. Peeing on the carpet gets a reaction, you telling him you are going to wash his hair as well as his sibling gets a reaction. Really think he needs to learn that for ever action there is a reaction and consequence. Most times the consequence and reaction are not what he wants and if the action warrants it punishment must be imposed. It's great to reward good behaviour, again, be careful of letting your child manipulate that situation they soon learn good v bad and change things to suit. Rules seem to be best for him, he obviously has rules at school where you say he is stable and progressing well. Don't really think you have a bad child, he is just trying to get you to respond to him.

[AliceKlar]

What is DS's relationship like with his little brother? How was his behaviour before he was born?

What is DS's eating and sleeping like? Does he get something approximating the recommended hours of sleep for his age? Have you ever noticed his behaviour worsening when he's hungry or hasn't eaten for a while?

Have you tried withdrawing attention when he is acting out? Just removing him from the situation with no comment? Have you tried giving him lots of positive attention when he's behaving well?
It sounds incredibly tough and stressful. And YY please don't blame yourself. I agree that talking to your GP about his behaviour is a good move because you need to know what's going on and ways to deal with his outbursts.

[Itsnotwhatitseems]

I have a memory of my eldest (now 28) having meltdowns at about 4 or 5, and felt like I was somehow to blame. The thing is he is completely lovely now and we have a wonderful relationship, try not to worry too much about this stage, I cant say its normal as I don't believe there is such a thing as one size fits all. If you carry on supporting him, loving him and dealing with it as it happens (hopefully with the help of your DH) it will one day be a memory you only remember when seeing a thread such as this many years later x

[OneWildNightWithJBJ]

I would definitely look into anxiety or sensory issues. My DS is perfectly well-behaved at school, but lets it all out as soon as he gets home. As said above, he holds it all in at school because he knows he'd get in trouble for doing certain things to ease his anxiety/sensory needs, but at home, where he feels safe, he can finally let go. We've been through CAMHS and he sees someone in school every so often now to help him deal with things.

Oppositional defiant disorder can also only be apparent in one setting, in mild cases.

There are lots of things that could be going on, it's not necessarily your parenting.

[Trb17]

With the best intentions, I do think that if you're asking if you're too soft then you probably are. At that age the consequences for pissing on the floor deliberately would be severe if it was me.

If he's ok with other carers and at school then I'm inclined to think he's just really pushing boundaries but for your own sanity I'd speak to his teachers to see if anything is happening that they've noticed.

Otherwise I think you need to toughen up and ensure that the consequences are consistent and severe enough to be a deterrent.

[PurpleMinionMummy]

sen kids who have meltdowns don't normally smirk about their behaviour afterwards.

[springflowers11]

he is unhappy about something and trying to tell you.. Possibly thinks you favour younger brother, but could be something completely different? Do you have lots of one to one with him when he can bring up his feelings?

[Oakmaiden]

I do think it is important that, before you go down the "it is not normal there must be something wrong with him" route, that you have a focused and intensive look at your behaviour management strategies and your relationship with him. I am by no means trying to say "it is all the parent's fault": some children are more challenging to parent than others, and lets face it, we all have different approaches to discipline, and yours may simply not work that well with the child you have! There is no shame to that.

I was very impressed with the behaviour strategies in "The Incredible Years" because they are focused very much on building a rapport of trust and warmth, building boundaries and limiting the feedback children get from poor behaviour. (Admittedly I went on a course for it - many Local Authorities still run it - and it was 12 years ago. My challenging child is now 19, and while still challenging on occasion, I am generally very proud of him). It is available as a book.

[TheFlyingFauxPas]

Beautiful post @MissHooliesCardigan

[vickibee]

Buy son is exemplary at school, he is good at home when he is getting undivided attention. He has meltdowns sometimes when you cannot reason with him and can only leave him to calm down. He was diagnosed HFASD last summer after years of seeking help. No one believes you , even our health visitor told me I was imagining. It is very stressful and I can empathise with you op. I have had things thrown at me and punched or kicked. . Other times he can be the most loving boy in the world.

[foxyloxy78]

To be honest, I think you need to go and get professional help for this asap so that you can nip this bad behaviour in the bud. It is not acceptable nd the older he gets, the worse it will become. Pissing on the floor as a protest in unheard of. All the best. You must be going through such a tough time.

[Curious2468]

this doesn't sound like ASD to me tbh but it doesn't sound like a neurotypical response either. It would probably be worth talking to a doctor or the schools senco for some advice. I would try a different tactic to the time out as he is obviously using this to push more buttons, the smirking after weeing sounds like it's thought out (though is he aware he is smirking? sometimes asd kids will smile or laugh inappropriately so there is potential he wees in stress and smirks with anxiety I guess). What happens after he does this? is he made to clear up his mess?

[Arborea]

Of course no one reading your post knows for sure whether there's something more to your son's meltdowns, I just wanted to add support to Italian Greyhound and OakMaiden's specific parenting course suggestions: I think that they vary depending on your area, but I am currently doing a Incredible Years (free of charge and with a creche for my 2 under 5s through my local SureStart - a friend in another area did Parenting Puzzle).

I have found the course a lot more helpful than just reading the book, as it forces me to reflect on things and gives us a chance to role play our responses as well as share particularly tricky situations we want to handle better.

Although I don't suspect my DC of having special needs I understand that in my area it's compulsory to do the course if you're seeking a referral for autism. Apparently this is because the techniques you learn are very useful with all children and gives a good base for working with children who may be on the spectrum.

There is incidentally a lot of overlap between Incredible Years and 123 Magic (and probably with various other courses!): I expect it's a bit like Slimming World vs Weightwatchers etc in that there's more than one way to achieve what is essentially eating less and moving more iyswim.

Good luck!

[donquixotedelamancha]

"He's good as gold at school no problems and generally around others he's an angel - a friend even commmented on how I've got the angelic child."

That does suggest that it's unlikely to be autism. There is little point in people on here speculating- it's not possible to diagnose special needs second hand, and lots of poor behaviour looks like lots of other things. Many 5 year olds are brats and if you really have been soft with him for years then that would cover it. Start by being much stronger in your parenting for a number of months:

1. Immediate consequences, then once it's done with let it go and don't bring it up again.
   
2. Explain what behaviour the consequence is for. Don't criticism him, give choices about behaviour and consequences for poor choices. You may need to wait until he's calmed down, that's fine.
   
3. No shouting (unless safety related), no anger. Model calm controlled responses you want from him.
   
4. Routine- enough sleep, structured day, keep him busy, spend time- it work wonders.
   
5. Lots of praise and bribes for good behavior. More of this than the consequences (but you do need to be really consistent with the consequences).
   

I wouldn't go looking for other explanations until you've given this a good few months of hard work. There may be underlying issues, and if so you should seek support, but its very easy to look for excuses and medicalise.

Not saying this stuff is easy- my daughter is like this and it's hard, but the above is effective, it just takes time. When she's on full paddy we just isolated and watched her, going back or sometimes just cuddling until calm. She still strops and tries to control, but its nothing like what it was.

[Slightlyperturbedowlagain]

some children are more challenging to parent than others
Totally absolutely agree Also some children seem particularly gifted in working out exactly which buttons to press for maximum reaction. Some of those determined, single-minded traits may also prove to be extremely valuable assets in adult life though, once they have learned to control their temper at least that's what I console myself with when it feels impossible

[Beeziekn33ze]

Foxy, no, really, it's not unheard of. For a start there's another on this thread.
OP you have lots of advice and suggestions. I hope your life improves soon 💐