AIBU re Flu Jab for healthcare professionals

[Libitina]

My Trust is now asking all managers to provide a list of who has had the jab and who hasn't in their department? They have also stated that if we have not had the jab and then contract flu, we will be invited to speak to the chief nurse of the Trust. They offer prize draws as an incentive, use peer pressure to get people to comply and blackmail by stating the sequin payment the Trust will get for a specific percentage of staff being innoculated will "pay for X amount of nurses" that I know we will never actually see.


AIBU to tell them to mind their own business?

[heebiejeebie]

Trifleorbust that's a complete straw man argument - no one is compelled to have the vaccination. The target is 75% take up - they're not sacking the recalcitrant 25%ers.

It's not yet a disciplinary offence to wilfully expose yourself and others to a potentially fatal, preventable condition. But, you know, I'd feel pretty shit if I accidentally killed off a few immunosuppressant people (who can't mount their own response to vaccination) because I was sticking it to the man

[TheBadgersMadeMeDoIt]

My trust encourages staff to have the vaccine and gives us every opportunity to do so but there are no penalties if you refuse.

For my part, I had flu once. Now, when the offer comes up every Autumn, I bite their fucking arm off. No way will I deliberately risk catching that shit again.

(But if my trust was as pushy as yours, I might be tempted to go and have it done quietly at my surgery just so I could tell them to stuff off and mind their own business.)

[HaveNoSocks]

To be honest I think it should be compulsory for anyone who doesn't have a good reason not to have it done. Higher risk of contracting the flu vaccine combined with the risk of infecting vulnerable patients makes it too selfish a choice not to get it done (unless there's an actual reason not to of course).

[Trifleorbust]

heebiejeebie: It's not a straw man argument. I am saying that people cannot be forced and shouldn't be forced because their status as HCPs doesn't negate a right the rest of us take for granted. Not sure what is 'straw man' about that.

[Trifleorbust]

IcedVanillaLatte: No, you are arguing about what they should be. I am disagreeing with you.

[IcedVanillaLatte]

No, I said I'd be happy with it. Learn to fucking read.

[Trifleorbust]

heebiejeebie: And I don't disagree that it's a selfish choice to not have it. I just think people have an absolute right to make selfish choices when it comes to their medical treatment.

[heebiejeebie]

Because they're not being forced

[FallenMadonnawiththeBadBoobies]

I have the most aggressive type of breast cancer and am half way through an "accelerated" chemotherapy regime - 8 sessions at fortnightly intervals - which is pretty damn tough on the immunity system. As it happens, although I mostly feel like shite, my body is holding up quite well. Others, many on less aggressive schedules, are not so lucky and end up with extended stays in hospital as a result of infections of various sorts due to impaired immunity systems.

I wasn't told I needed a flu jab by anyone in my medical team, but I'm very much an information gatherer, found the advice on line and was lucky enough to have a GP who found a slot for me to have the jab at very short notice before my treatment started. I know from on-line forums that not all fellow sufferers know that getting the flu jab before chemo starts is recommended. I have read different advice as to whether jabs should be given once chemo has started, but I believe the majority view is that it shouldn't. Consequently, I would imagine that there are many who are gong through chemo who haven't had the jab.

Chemo patients are told to keep away from all possible sorts of infection, particularly during those days during each cycle when their immunity systems are most compromised. All of the medical staff I have dealt with on my journey have been absolutely fantastic. I would be quite shocked and concerned if medical staff dealing with chemo patients were refusing to have the flu jab unless they had medical issues of their own which counted against it. I would hope that they would WANT to have the jab in recognition of the vulnerability of their patients.

I'm sure there are many similar scenarios with different types of illnesses and treatments.

[Trifleorbust]

IcedVanillaLatte: I don't understand any meaningful difference between 'I would be happy with it' and 'I think it should be the case'. You can insult me if you like but perhaps it would be more productive to explain your rather obtuse comment?

[Bobcat15]

My understanding is that your trust still gets the cquin payment if you sign a form saying you were offered it but want to decline. Our choice was to either have the jab or sign a form saying we didn't want it (no need to give reason why). Latest figures I saw today are that we have 74.1% of staff vaccinated now.

[Trifleorbust]

heebiejeebie: I didn't say they are. I said they ought not to be.

[DonutParade]

I have experienced a mild but annoying reaction to the jab before but will be getting it, as will my kids, even tho I have to beg to get it for my eldest. We have a lot of out-patients visits to paeds, and while I'm a total libertarian, I'm frankly a little at HCPs not getting the shot. Regardless it is no-one business but yours if you do or don't.
Also curious about what happened to Stratters.

[ginswinger]

I'm a healthy, fit and active 40 something but the 'flu was by far the most ill I have ever been. I was in bed for four days, unable to eat or drink, then 3 months of pretty terribly illness, depression and lethargy. I cannot imagine what the 'flu would do to someone who is already ill. I am really surprised that anyone would want to get it! Like Badger, I am in the first in the queue to get jabbed and get my kid done too.

[heebiejeebie]

You're arguing on the basis that health care professionals shouldn't be forced to have vaccinations. Literally no one else is saying they should. And you agree that they are actually not, in fact, being forced to.

That's Worzel Gummage, right there.

[Trifleorbust]

heebiejeebie: I was responding to a poster who said they wouldn't mind there being an obligation.

[heebiejeebie]

Sorry - missed that in the hurly burly

[PacificDogwod]

Yes, I think there should be an obligation for HCP unless there was a medical reason not to.
Obligation does not mean to pin people down and force them to have a vaccination they do not want, but they would have to have an assessment with Occ Health and their reasons for not wishing to have the flu vac explored.

The whole 'Oh, I've never had the flu - I don't need the vac' or 'Ach, I missed the flu session, never mind' nonsense should come to an end IMO.

We are due an influence endemic and whenever it strikes it would be nice if HCP were not as affected as the rest of the country/world.

[Trifleorbust]

[Trifleorbust]

PacificDogwod: I agree it would be nice if people made the choice to get the vaccine, but you can't oblige people to accept treatment even in the absence of a medical reason not to. They have a right to decline without giving a explanation.

[heebiejeebie]

Yes, Pacific Dogwood, I now agree with my new best friend Trifle

[PacificDogwod]

They have a right to decline without giving a explanation.

Yes, that is how it stands, and I understand the reasons for it.
I am just not sure that I agree

Maybe the word 'obligation' was the wrong one to use (I shot from the hip), but there should be an expectation that HCP should have it done. It would be nice if there was, I dunno, a kind of peer pressure that it is The Done Thing.
And you'd feel a little defensive if you didn't...

[PacificDogwod]

I get both sides of the argument.

And I am more than happy to agree to disagree

[Trifleorbust]

PacificDogwod: I can't agree that we should be pressuring people into medical treatments. Promoting, incentivising, reminding - fine. Anything more coercive than this is problematic in my view.

[m0therofdragons]

You know there's a CQUIN attached to clinical staff having the flu jab? Imo anyone putting vulnerable patients at risk by not having the flu jab is working in the wrong profession. You care about your patients why wouldn't you have it? I think it's right for management to know and they need to know for government stats.