AIBU re Flu Jab for healthcare professionals

[Libitina]

My Trust is now asking all managers to provide a list of who has had the jab and who hasn't in their department? They have also stated that if we have not had the jab and then contract flu, we will be invited to speak to the chief nurse of the Trust. They offer prize draws as an incentive, use peer pressure to get people to comply and blackmail by stating the sequin payment the Trust will get for a specific percentage of staff being innoculated will "pay for X amount of nurses" that I know we will never actually see.


AIBU to tell them to mind their own business?

[CPtart]

The elderly and vulnerable have a responsibility to protect themselves as far as is reasonably possible. If more people took responsibility for their own health we wouldn't be seeing a boom in some of the chronic health conditions and associated social problems we do.
I still refuse to have (assuming I live to a nice old age) over 70 flu vaccines administered in my lifetime. Personal autonomy wins every time.

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

Chesty one year I got a huge swollen red lump (about palm of hand sized) for 24 hours after, on the sire of the injection.

[tehmina23]

As an HCA I had the flu jab last week with no ill effects.

I always have the flu jab since I was ill for 2 weeks with it a few years ago - I worked in a factory as a temp & didn't get paid for 2 whole weeks!
I felt like I'd been run over, I couldn't do anything.

[PregnantBridesmaid]

CPTart it is an entirely different situation. The elderly and vulnerable have not taken on a role in which they have a duty of care to more vulnerable members of society.

Healthcare professionals have however taken on that duty of care. They will be coming in to regular contact with vulnerable individuals and have a professional responsibility. They may not have symptoms of the flu but can still transmit it on to a patient that they are meant to be there to protect. This may be life threatening for that patient. Therefore it is my belief that when you choose that job, I think you have made your choice about whether to get the vaccine or not. I think that your professional duty overrides personal autonomy.


So yes, OP is BU. Good on her managers for being proactive to get vaccination rates up.

[ChestyNut]

I'm having mine next week, looking forward to my extra annual leave day for having it.

Does anyone else get a red/hot swollen round area from it? Get it every year, not just a small area, roughly 10cmx10cm (fat arms)

[CPtart]

People don't choose to be elderly or vulnerable but they, of their own free choice, can refuse to have the flu jab. And hundreds of thousands do. Do they also not have a responsibility to their peers and wider society? My right to make the same choice is as important as theirs.
Of course you can't force people out the door. In the same vein it's no less immoral to bribe and threaten HCP with non-compliance either.

[PregnantBridesmaid]

YAB totally U.

Have you read about the concerns about this years upcoming flu epidemic? Have you read about the impact flu has had in Australia/Asia earlier this year?

In light of these concerns, I think it is irresponsible for front line health professionals to decline the flu vaccine.

[Straycatblue]

Sorry, this link will take you direct to the reporting page I think

yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

[Straycatblue]

For those who have had any side effects from Flu vaccination , not just serious side effects, please report via the The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency online yellow card scheme. Side effects of any medication, not just vaccinations are often undereported.

yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/the-yellow-card-scheme/

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

RavingRoo you can fuck right off accusing me of lying

Bumble thanks for the info, I was looking at similar for this year.

Raving I've had flu vaccines for years. I've had confirmed IBS (Diverticulitis if thats relevant) for over 3 years.

I had the FluJab one evening and bear in mind the flu jab changes and my IBS which I usually control very well, flared up and I had unbearable symptoms for the best part of a week.

So yes, I know my body.
And yes I know the flu jab last year had horrendous side effect for me, so this year I am going in armed with information.
Just because you are fine doesn't mean I am fine.
Anecdotes don't equal date

Shall I just jack in a career spanning nearly 30 years in the NHS then ?

[Toddlerteaplease]

We got a mugshot soup sachet, if we had ours at work. I had mine at the GP it made sure it went on record at work. We get £500 if we meet the target number of people vaccinated.

[mrbob]

The flu vaccine was 40% effective this year. The people at work who have been off with flu and the patients I have seen have all, in fact had the vaccine. So apologies if I don't put a huge amount of trust in it. I am very pro vaccine generally but I think telling people they HAVE to have vaccine that doesn't actually work very well is a bit cheeky...

[bumbleymummy]

Fluarix tetra actually lists diarrhoea as one of the common side effects in its information leaflet.

"Gastrointestinal disorders

Common: gastrointestinal symptoms (including nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and/or abdominal pain)"

[bumbleymummy]

RavingRoo, she wasn't saying that the flu jab caused her IBS. She's saying that it triggered a bout of it. As a sufferer yourself, surely you know that different people have different triggers and just because it doesn't trigger yours doesn't mean that it can't be a trigger for other people.

[RavingRoo]

@bumbleymummy - it’s all junk science. There is no scientific link between ibs and the flu jab or indeed most vaccinations. The poster was lying to proove their point. The flu jab saves more people than it harms and if you won’t or can’t take it then you shouldn’t have a healthcare related job. A

[Jb291]

I'm an NHS front line HCP working in A&E. I always have the jab as soon as it is available. Not only am I protecting myself from flu and my friends and family but the very vulnerable patients in my department and on the wards. I really do not understand why anyone working in the NHS would refuse to get the jab.

[GilligansKitchenIsland]

Aware that this thread is a year old but the issues are still relevant, aren't they?
I'm an HCP and haven't had the flu jab for the last 2 years after having a reaction to it in 2014 that made me unwell for about 4 months. I'm unsure if I'll get it this year; all the headlines are warning us to brace ourselves for a particularly nasty strain. If I was to get it, it would only be to protect myself, not my patients, as the evidence suggests that it has little to no effect on transmission of flu from HCPs to patients:
www.cochrane.org/CD005187/ARI_influenza-vaccination-healthcare-workers-who-care-people-aged-60-or-older-living-long-term-care
This review only looked at the elderly in residential care - I haven't been able to find any studies on other populations. But given the weight the NHS usually gives to Cochrane reviews I suspect their main motivation for pushing the vaccine is to reduce staff sick days.

[bumbleymummy]

RavingRoo, just because you haven't had a bad reaction to your flu jab doesn't mean that nobody else has.

[Bratsandtwats]

I read this earlier this week
www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/12/nhs-urges-14m-staff-flu-jab-reduce-risk-epidemic?CMP=share_btn_fb
NHS bosses are writing to all 1.4 million staff to say they must have the winter flu jab as soon as possible to reduce the risk of them infecting patients who might die.Those who decline the jab will have to tell the NHS trust that employs them why, and it will have to record their reasons, as part of a bid to drive up what the NHS admits are “disappointing” staff take-up rates.

[Nizuc]

Why would HCP's whose job it is to help others NOT get the jab? It's irresponsible.

"Let me look at your leg....what 's that? You live alone and just had your 90th birthday!.....There you are my dear, I've bandaged your weeping leg, oh and given you flu."

I'm surprised it's not mandatory for ALL STAFF on the cancer/respiratory wards.

And I think those staff who 'refuse' to have for no other reason shouldn't get sick pay when they come down with the flu. And they should wear face masks and a big badge advertising they are a refuser.


On a personal note, I've had the jab. I work with HCP's for an NHS provider as admin in a non clinical setting. I didn't know about CQUIN but it explains why admin have been allowed to have it! However, it prevents me taking sick leave and passing it onto colleagues.

[RavingRoo]

@70isaLimitNotaTarget - you shat yourself because of IBS. Not because of the flu job. I have severe IBS too and get the flu jab regularly - there is no link between the two.

[bumbleymummy]

YANBU. Mandatory nothing.

[mirime]

@CPtart you chose to be a HCP, they didn't choose to be elderly or vulnerable. If an elderly person won't go and have a flu jab, what do we do? Physically force them out the door?

To be honest I wouldn't want someone with your attitude taking care of my elderly relatives.

[Skarossinkplunger]

I have a massive needle phobia and don't have injections. My workplace offer it and I decline.

[Allthewaves]

And i thought the stickers being a 'flu fighter' was ott